Sparge water

[Nico.Capy]

Hey!

So far I've only brewed once with my Grainfather G30 and my conical fermenter, but I've played around with the recipe creator for a bit, and it sometimes suggested that I used more sparge water than mash water, typically for bigger volumes of beer and/or longer boiling times. I don't know if it's a silly question or not, but will it dilute my mash at all, or affect it in any way?
And is there a perfect temperature/temperature range for sparge water?

Cheers,
Nico

 

[hotbeer]

If you are entirely extract kit, I've no earthly idea.

The basic idea is to just get the sugars rinsed out of the grains. So that's sparge water. Mash water is the amount you need to get the sugars and starches converted to fermentable sugars.

Increasing mash water may not get more fermentable stuff in your fermenter. You might leave it in the grain you throw out.

Yes there is a perfect temperature. But what that is might depend on too much science to be applied in the moment you currently are at in your mash/sparge. So as long as you are close, there is a range of temps that are acceptable. It's also somewhat recipe/beer type dependent.

Remember the recipe calculators and stuff are based on a certain groups experiences. Sometimes for the particular equipment they may be designed around.

You can always try stuff on your own and get perfectly good beer... Or not.

 

[Nico.Capy]

If you are entirely extract kit, I've no earthly idea.

The basic idea is to just get the sugars rinsed out of the grains. So that's sparge water. Mash water is the amount you need to get the sugars and starches converted to fermentable sugars.

Increasing mash water may not get more fermentable stuff in your fermenter. You might leave it in the grain you throw out.

Yes there is a perfect temperature. But what that is might depend on too much science to be applied in the moment you currently are at in your mash/sparge. So as long as you are close, there is a range of temps that are acceptable. It's also somewhat recipe/beer type dependent.

Remember the recipe calculators and stuff are based on a certain groups experiences. Sometimes for the particular equipment they may be designed around.

You can always try stuff on your own and get perfectly good beer... Or not.

I use Grainfather's recipe's creator with Grainfather's equipment, so I'm guessing if they tell me it's ok to have more sparge water than mash water, they're not completely wrong. But I wanted to understand and make sure I wouldn't be screwing things up instead of just guessing.

So if I want a certain volume of beer, it doesn't matter that I have a bit more sparge water than mash water? There will just be a little more water to rinse the remaining grain than to get the fermentables out, but the mash water will still have done the job?

The sparge water temperature should be around 75° - 79°C (167° - 175°F) right?

 

[IslandLizard]

Sparging = rinsing.

After the mash is done, you'd raise the grain basket above the wort line. Let drip out, then pour (hot) water through it.
Or better, move the basket to a large bucket with your sparge water in it. Either dunk a few times and/or stir. Then raise the basket and let drip out into your bucket. You can place a rack or so on top of your bucket, onto which you sit the basket.

For even better efficiency, you could do 2 successive sparges. For that, do your 1st sparge with half the sparge volume, let drip out, add the reclaimed wort to your Grainfather. Repeat with the 2nd half of your sparge water.

Essentially, these are forms of batch sparging.
Temperature is not that important, as long as the grist temp doesn't exceed 170F (= mashout temp). Your sparge water pH should be either very low alkalinity (e.g., RO water), or acidified enough to keep the sparging grist's pH under 5.8. Use a brewing water calculator such as BrunWater. Your Grainfather software may have one too.

The total volume of wort collected in your GF, being the dripped out mash + wort from one or 2 sparges, should be your pre-boil volume.

Your pre-boil wort volume should be equal to the sum of these 3 (1. +_2. + 3.):
1. Your batch size (volume going into the fermenter)
2. Boil-off volume
3. Trub loss (volume left behind in the kettle after transfer to fermenter).

 

[marc1]

I use Grainfather's recipe's creator with Grainfather's equipment, so I'm guessing if they tell me it's ok to have more sparge water than mash water, they're not completely wrong. But I wanted to understand and make sure I wouldn't be screwing things up instead of just guessing.

So if I want a certain volume of beer, it doesn't matter that I have a bit more sparge water than mash water? There will just be a little more water to rinse the remaining grain than to get the fermentables out, but the mash water will still have done the job?

The sparge water temperature should be around 75° - 79°C (167° - 175°F) right?

IIRC, it's over 170F that can lead to problems extracting tannins if your sparge water is too alkaline. But you don't have to sparge with hot water. I have good results sparging with room temp water. Obviously this requires a bit longer to reach a boil afterwards, but I only need to heat one vessel, and don't need a separate hot liquor tank.

 

[hotbeer]

I use Grainfather's recipe's creator with Grainfather's equipment, so I'm guessing if they tell me it's ok to have more sparge water than mash water, they're not completely wrong. But I wanted to understand and make sure I wouldn't be screwing things up instead of just guessing.

If you are going to use their recipes, then follow their recipes and the way they tell you to do things. If it worked for them, it should work for you if you do the same.

If there is some process or something that you can't do the same, then you need to know what that affects. In many cases, nothing if you aren't trying to get the exact flavor that recipe is intended to give you.

There are all different ideas on mashing and sparging. Some things work better for different people that use different processes. I'd be fairly certain if you looked at any of us responding here that we all go about mashing and sparging differently. We all get good beer I'm sure. At least mine is!

So if I want a certain volume of beer, it doesn't matter that I have a bit more sparge water than mash water? There will just be a little more water to rinse the remaining grain than to get the fermentables out, but the mash water will still have done the job?

Not if your aren't trying to get the same exact flavor and other profiles you got last time from the same recipe. But you need to consider the evaporation rates of the mash water and sparge water that you use. It's generally preferable to have your wort quantity at the end of boil to be the quantity of beer you are making.

Too much at the end of your boil and you likely won't have the OG that was planned on. You can boil longer to reduce it, but at that point don't expect it to be exactly like any previous beer you made from that recipe and did hit your targets.

Likewise if you come up short. You can just add more sparge water or wort if you have some. Your choice of which might get decided by what your SG currently is. And also whether you make it up during the boil or after.

The sparge water temperature should be around 75° - 79°C (167° - 175°F) right?

What's your recipe say and brew equipment instructions say to do if you are using their recipes? Certain beers going for certain characteristics might call for higher mash out temps/sparge temps, others lower. If you aren't going for a duplicate of something you made before, then it may not be a big deal. But probably I'd err on the lower temp side.

Typically I still mash out and sparge at 170°F. Note that mash out is not mash temps which are much lower. I seen a lot of conversation about mash out/sparge temps not really being necessary. I don't know. I'll try it some after I get more experience.

There are some many different ways to go about brewing a beer. So don't be scared to experiment. But if you are looking for a specific taste/style/ABV, then unless you know what your changes might do, then follow the recipe and their procedures.

 

[Jag75]

Use the Grainfather app. Once you input the batch size and grain bill it gives you the mash & sparge volumes. Those volumes have been spot on for me.

 

[VikeMan]

So far I've only brewed once with my Grainfather G30 and my conical fermenter, but I've played around with the recipe creator for a bit, and it sometimes suggested that I used more sparge water than mash water, typically for bigger volumes of beer and/or longer boiling times. I don't know if it's a silly question or not, but will it dilute my mash at all, or affect it in any way?

Regardless of the individual strike (mash) and sparge volumes, the total water should be calculated to yield the correct volume after losses. So, if you increase/decrease the strike volume, you decrease/increase the sparge volume.

That said, with a single batch sparge process, the most efficient strike and sparge volume split will be the one that gives equal runoff volumes for first runnings and sparge runnings. That's not the same thing as saying the strike and sparge water volumes should be equal, because your first runnings will be something less than your strike volume (due to grain absorption and deadspace), but your sparge runoff will be roughly equal to your sparge water volume.

 

[Nico.Capy]

Use the Grainfather app. Once you input the batch size and grain bill it gives you the mash & sparge volumes. Those volumes have been spot on for me.

Even when the sparge water volume > mash water volume?

 

[Jag75]

Even when the sparge water volume > mash water volume?

I have about 15 recipes and none of them have more sparge water then the mash. What is your recipe, I can input it and see what I get if you want . Or try updating your app .

 

[VikeMan]

Even when the sparge water volume > mash water volume?

I don't use the grainfather app, but in general that can happen if you have the strike water to grain ratio set to a low value, and/or you are making a low gravity beer.