Soy Sauce Flavor in Stout

[loeks]

I made an export stout based on the export stout recipe in brewing Classic styles and it tastes a lot like soy sauce after 3-4 weeks bottled. I REALLY need to work on my ferm temps moving forward, so I am confident that this flavor is caused by temps getting way out of control the first couple of day of fermentation.

Whatevs. Gonna RDWHAHB cuz it's mos def drinkable, but I thought it could be intersting to others who might come across the soy sauce flavor.

 

[BigJack]

Sounds like unhappy, unhealthy yeast. =(

 

[MaxStout]

What yeast did you use? What fermentation temp?

 

[maffew222]

Certainly possible. The "soy sauce" flavor can come from a few different places. It could be autolysis (from beer being in contact with dead yeast too long). I have gotten it from certain malt combos as well, but in my case a few weeks in the bottle has generally settled those flavors out. I suppose you could get it from other places as well, like high ferm temps as you mentioned, but I'm not certain.

 

[BigFloyd]

Don't panic. Your stout likely just needs some more time.

Last chocolate milk stout I brewed (good pitch rate, precise temp control) tasted that way at three weeks. I placed it in a closet and left it alone for several more weeks. After 3 months stored at room temp, all of the soy sauce flavor was gone and it was quite nice. At 6 months, it was amazing.

You may have other flavor issues if your temps were too high, but the soy sauce character should go away in due time.

 

[loeks]

What yeast did you use? What fermentation temp?

Notty at room temp. Ambient was around 68*F, so I bet the fermentation temp got way up there. It was my first time using Notty, so I had no idea it can get out of hand at higher temps.

I am having no problems enjoying it, especially at 7.5% ABV I just didn't see too much in the way of addressing soy sauce flavor when I did a forum search, so I thought I would just add to the conversation, as it were.

I just know for next time, if I want a cleaner flavor, I really need to watch temps. Just need to figure out the best way to do that on the cheap. Prob end up using a swamp cooler.

 

[loeks]

Don't panic. Your stout likely just needs some more time.

Last chocolate milk stout I brewed (good pitch rate, precise temp control) tasted that way at three weeks. I placed it in a closet and left it alone for several more weeks. After 3 months stored at room temp, all of the soy sauce flavor was gone and it was quite nice. At 6 months, it was amazing.

You may have other flavor issues if your temps were too high, but the soy sauce character should go away in due time.

No panicking here Thanks for the insight about giving it more time. We'll see how long I can go without drinking all of it up

 

[bobbrews]

Dogfish Head World Wide Stout tastes like Soy Sauce to me and many others. There is probably a clone out there for it which you can use to compare recipe/processes with your own to narrow down a possible cause.

 

[philosofool]

I think you are wrong that this is a fermentation issue.

Soy sauce flavors are sometimes produced by roasted malts and that's probably what's doing it. I have found soy sauce in a number of stouts, and I think it's probably roasted barley that's the culprit. While it's possible that this is a yeast thing, I strongly suspect the roasted malts. Not every roasted malt will do it; there's definitely variation.

This makes a lot of sense, as soy sauce is also made from roasted grains (and soy.)

 

[MaxStout]

Notty at room temp. Ambient was around 68*F, so I bet the fermentation temp got way up there. It was my first time using Notty, so I had no idea it can get out of hand at higher temps.

I am having no problems enjoying it, especially at 7.5% ABV I just didn't see too much in the way of addressing soy sauce flavor when I did a forum search, so I thought I would just add to the conversation, as it were.

I just know for next time, if I want a cleaner flavor, I really need to watch temps. Just need to figure out the best way to do that on the cheap. Prob end up using a swamp cooler.

It's possible your ferm temps were well into the 70s. You'll probably have some fusels in there, but good to hear it's still drinkable. Give it time and the off-flavor may dissipate as it ages.

A cheap way to control ferm temps is with a simple swamp cooler. Get one of those rubber tubs with handles and set your fermenter in it. Pour in cold water about half way up. For better cooling, freeze a bunch of plastic pop bottles full of water and put a couple in the swamp cooler with the water. Change the ice bottles a couple times a day, as needed.

You can also put an old t-shirt over the fermenter with the bottom of the shirt in the water so that water wicks upward. Then run a small fan on the shirt. Evaporation will add to the cooling effect.

 

[loeks]

I think you are wrong that this is a fermentation issue.

Soy sauce flavors are sometimes produced by roasted malts and that's probably what's doing it. I have found soy sauce in a number of stouts, and I think it's probably roasted barley that's the culprit. While it's possible that this is a yeast thing, I strongly suspect the roasted malts. Not every roasted malt will do it; there's definitely variation.

This makes a lot of sense, as soy sauce is also made from roasted grains (and soy.)

Interesting.

Yeah as a side note - I was hoping it would end up being similar to Lion Stout, and I think I hit that mark. Lion Stout kinda has that flavor as well, but I think the yeast off flavors from high fermentation temps made the soy sauce flavor more pronounced, almost salty even. Also, I think my FG ended up being lower than it should have been which thinned out the body and probably made off flavors more pronounced as well.

 

[BigFloyd]

We'll see how long I can go without drinking all of it up

The best way for me is to box it up, seal the box, mark it with a "do not open before" date, stick it in a closet and forget about it. It would be a waste to drink this before it's really ready.

 

[loeks]

The best way for me is to box it up, seal the box, mark it with a "do not open before" date, stick it in a closet and forget about it. It would be a waste to drink this before it's really ready.

You're totally right.

 

[MaxStout]

Every beer you drink when it's not ready is one less beer to enjoy when it is.

Put it away for a few months and start looking ahead to your next brew!

 

[loeks]

Every beer you drink when it's not ready is one less beer to enjoy when it is.

Put it away for a few months and start looking ahead to your next brew!

So that brings up another question. Let's say that I already put the majority of the beer in the fridge? Too late to take it out and let it age further or not?

 

[MaxStout]

So that brings up another question. Let's say that I already put the majority of the beer in the fridge? Too late to take it out and let it age further or not?

You can take it back out (and you should, so it will condition). Letting it warm back up won't hurt it. Store it in a dark place, around 70 or so.

 

[BigFloyd]

You can take it back out (and you should, so it will condition). Letting it warm back up won't hurt it. Store it in a dark place, around 70 or so.

Yep.

 

[philosofool]

Interesting.

Yeah as a side note - I was hoping it would end up being similar to Lion Stout, and I think I hit that mark. Lion Stout kinda has that flavor as well, but I think the yeast off flavors from high fermentation temps made the soy sauce flavor more pronounced, almost salty even. Also, I think my FG ended up being lower than it should have been which thinned out the body and probably made off flavors more pronounced as well.

Given that roasted barley and other roasted malts don't invariably produce this flavor, I can imagine that it's exacerbated by other components of the beer. For example, I would expect oniony/dank hops would really bring it out, maybe also pine.

I'm glad to hear from others that they've conditioned these flavors out. I'll keep that in mind next time around...

 

[phug]

Same thing happened with a dark graff I had, though it had no roasted barley in it. It aged out over a while.

 

[loeks]

You can take it back out (and you should, so it will condition). Letting it warm back up won't hurt it. Store it in a dark place, around 70 or so.

Thanks Max

 

[mkeckjr]

To add one other potential thing to consider when getting the soy saucy "umami" flavors in a stout is that this flavor can also occur via oxidation. I think the process is called non-enzymatic glycation, but I believe the hypothesis is that products from Maillard reactions (of which there are hundreds, e.g. melanoidins) will react with free sugar when oxygen is present. This is why big doppelbocks and big dark beers with lots of roast malt are the beers most commonly found to have this "soy sauce" character, because they have a lot of free sugar and plenty of Maillard products.

It is also true that autolysis cause this as well, but since you're dealing with a dark semi-strong beer, I think this is something to consider.

 

[loeks]

To add one other potential thing to consider when getting the soy saucy "umami" flavors in a stout is that this flavor can also occur via oxidation. I think the process is called non-enzymatic glycation, but I believe the hypothesis is that products from Maillard reactions (of which there are hundreds, e.g. melanoidins) will react with free sugar when oxygen is present. This is why big doppelbocks and big dark beers with lots of roast malt are the beers most commonly found to have this "soy sauce" character, because they have a lot of free sugar and plenty of Maillard products.

It is also true that autolysis cause this as well, but since you're dealing with a dark semi-strong beer, I think this is something to consider.

Word.