Soured beer always tastes and smells like apple juice

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

O.L.D.B.B.A

Orange Light District Brews & Q's Company
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
24
Reaction score
2
Location
Glencoe Ontario
Just want to get your thoughts. I have brewed a lot of sours in the past year and have had many of them that smell and taste just like apple juice. Its not unpleasant and usually we age on fruit and it either covers up the apple juice flavour or it goes away. I know that the recommendation is to leave it on the yeast longer and the apple juice flavour will be reduced or eliminated but even on some that have been in primary for 1 month+, before adding fruit additions (not dry hops, still cant seem to brew a quality dry hopped sour) it still smells and tastes just like apple juice. Now its important to note that not all have done this, Some have been the most amazing lemony/lime/sweet tart flavour. It seems to depend on the grist, the more we stray from 100% 2 row, the more this apple juice effect we get. It still makes good finished beer and isn't necessarily a problem I am just curious on what exactly it might be.
We mash at 150-154 range, we boil for about 10 min, chill and then pitch L. Plantarum and L. Rhamnosus. Leave that for 24-48 hours at 100 degrees give or take, and then pitch US-05. After 2 weeks....Its apple juice. It tastes good and after aging on some fruit its pretty tasty, but its certainly not the same as commercial examples of similar styles. I would like to get more of the lemony and sweet tart type flavours.
 

tagz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,035
Reaction score
283
Either acetaldehyde from yeast stressed by the pH and/or lack of nutrients or acidity and malt with no backbone from hops. If your looking to keep things simple with quick souring, I’d suggest using a kveik like Voss or Lutra (both available as dry yeast) in combination with the lacto. They both work well in the 90s. Increase nutrients a bit as well. You could even give the yeast a head start. If it’s a balance problem, you could brew a small batch blonde and blend.
 
OP
OP
O

O.L.D.B.B.A

Orange Light District Brews & Q's Company
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
24
Reaction score
2
Location
Glencoe Ontario
Have you tried philly sour yeast instead of the two step version you’ve not had great results with?
Yes, I have tried philly sour and it turned out great but not exactly what I was going for. I really like sour, something < 3.3 PH. I was not able to get this with philly sour yeast.
 
OP
OP
O

O.L.D.B.B.A

Orange Light District Brews & Q's Company
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
24
Reaction score
2
Location
Glencoe Ontario
Either acetaldehyde from yeast stressed by the pH and/or lack of nutrients or acidity and malt with no backbone from hops. If your looking to keep things simple with quick souring, I’d suggest using a kveik like Voss or Lutra (both available as dry yeast) in combination with the lacto. They both work well in the 90s. Increase nutrients a bit as well. You could even give the yeast a head start. If it’s a balance problem, you could brew a small batch blonde and blend.

Ok, this makes a lot of sense. I suspect you are right about stressed yeast as I have been pitching the yeast only after getting the wort very sour. Dry yeast, one satchet, no nutrient. I shall follow this advice on my upcoming brew. As a side note, I just bottled a Lemon-Ginger-Fuzzy peach that tasted very good (slight acetaldehyde but not enough to be unpleasant). I think it is also an oxidation issue as I have read that oxygen exposure can cause ethanol to oxidize into acetaldehyde. Thank you very much for this advice.
 
Top