sourdough starter not souring

[kgb_operative]

So I've been baking with sourdough for many years, and after I started brewing beer I decided that my sourdough starter had a wonderful, not overpoweringly sour aroma and that I would try that in a honeyed wheatbeer recipe that I really liked (scaled down to 1 gal):

1.5# wheat malt
1.0# 2-row pale
0.25# flaked oats
0.5# orange blossom honey

3-batch mash (.5gal @ 145, .5gal @ 155, .5gal @ 175)

0.5oz crystal hops @ 60min

The only difference was that I did not have the crystal but I did have some leftover perle pellets. OG was ~1090

After I pitched the starter, the fermentation really kicked off about 24 hours later (to the point where it over-flowed the airlock), but I have yet to detect any sourness at all, just smells like a hoppy pale ale. I did not have a scale that could weigh the .25oz of perle that I would need and may have used too much; so my question is, could this have killed off the souring beasties and left just sacch?

 

[kgb_operative]

Update: fruity nose, good attenuation (from 1094 to 1031 in less than a week), the hops have faded into the background, and the malts have risen to the fore. It appears that I have a good ale yeast on my hands, not a whole lot of acidity though. Go figure....

 

[IronMike]

I am a sourdough baker myself, and i believe that there are two diferent organisms at work in a good starter...yeast and bacteria, which is a lacto strain. The yeast will not give you the sour in your bread, it is the lactobacillus that you have captured. So...I think that when you put it in your wort, the yeast went to work on the sugars but I don't know what happens to the lacto. What is used in sour beers?

 

[bruin_ale]

lacto is used in sour beers.. so if he introduced his sourdough starter, he should have introduced lacto at the same time. I've never used lacto, so I don't know if it takes longer to get the sourness to come out.

 

[cervezarara]

In my limited experience, the yeast reallly take off in a fermentable wort. After their activity dies down, the lactobacilli get a foothold and start working. They can be very slow, so maybe give it a month and taste again if you're looking for sour flavors. Meanwhile you can search on Berliner Weisse or Lambic to read some threads about what some of us brewers do to intentionally sour a beer.

 

[kgb_operative]

Looks like you're right; it's got a bit of an acidic nose on it now that the fermentation has slowed down. As soon as I get/make a wine thief thin enough to fit the mouth of the bottle I'll post the SG and flavor profile without the sediment I got last time (yuck).

Hope it works!

 

[IronMike]

How much levain did you add to your wort? I might try this .

 

[kgb_operative]

I used about 1/2 cup of starter in a 1 gallon batch. I don't really have enough to test the gravity again if I want 3 champagne bottles worth of beer (though it'll probably be worth it later if nothing goes wrong). The beer itself actually tastes pretty good; it still has some body to it, but it still smells of fruit, tastes a bit citric and has a slight tang that compliments an almost champagne-like fizz. I would like to bottle it in about a week, but I think I'll have to wait for it to stop fermenting completely before I risk a bottle bomb.

 

[IronMike]

I used about 1/2 cup of starter in a 1 gallon batch. I don't really have enough to test the gravity again if I want 3 champagne bottles worth of beer (though it'll probably be worth it later if nothing goes wrong). The beer itself actually tastes pretty good; it still has some body to it, but it still smells of fruit, tastes a bit citric and has a slight tang that compliments an almost champagne-like fizz. I would like to bottle it in about a week, but I think I'll have to wait for it to stop fermenting completely before I risk a bottle bomb.

Do you think that the oxygen starved lacto will survive in the bottle?

 

[kgb_operative]

I was hoping to get the flavor that I wanted in the primary, and when I was satisfied drop it to about 35F to stop further action, and bottle with priming sugar.

Either that or I have heard that you can pasteurize when you get to the flavor you want, and then pitch a neutral yeast with some sugar (if needed) to kick-start bottle conditioning.

Not really sure which way to go, but for my next batch I am going to get a bunch of other people together and rack it into a used white wine barrel secondary to age. You can get them super cheap straight from the winery, but unfortunately they usually only come in 50gal (or 60 depending on the winery). Tho 50 gallons of soury goodness does not sound like a bad idea!

 

[kgb_operative]

Updates!
Got the ale bottled yesterday; I got 9 12oz bottles out of it, and the final OG was 1009 (stable for 3 days). It still tastes pretty clean, a bit fruity (though not as much as the first week) with a tangy sour bite at the back end, and not much funk. The ABV being what it is, I think it will need at least another month in the bottle to even out some of the harshness.

I know that this will taste really great if I left it alone for another six months, but considering how pleasant this tastes now (flat and with a bit of moonshine-burn) I don't think that I will be waiting that long to dig into this.


Edit: anyone have any suggestions on conditioning temps? I was thinking to stick them in my wine fridge (~52F)