Sourdough bread causing loose bowel movements

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MarthaSprung

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Hello everyone,

I recently got into making my own sourdough bread. Unfortunately after consumption my bread causes loose bowel movements. If anyone has any idea what could be the reason for this, please let me know. I am using emmer-flour, glass-bottled water and salt. The bread seems to be quite moist compared to store bought bread.

Thanks in advance!
 

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I thought sourdough was supposed to do the opposite? Help this kind of situation? Is it the flour itself causing an issue and not necessarily that it's sourdough? I sort of thought this kind of flour was supposed to be friendly as well.

Any chance it's a mild allergic reaction of some sort?
 
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MarthaSprung

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Let it stand for two days, bread needs some time, then it's easier in the stomach.
Do you mean the bread or the dough?
I thought sourdough was supposed to do the opposite? Help this kind of situation? Is it the flour itself causing an issue and not necessarily that it's sourdough? I sort of thought this kind of flour was supposed to be friendly as well.

Any chance it's a mild allergic reaction of some sort?
Yes emmer should be relatively easy to digest. I wasn't the only one who had this reaction to my bread. It is not too bad, but I would like to bake bread that you could eat on a regular basis.
 
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MarthaSprung

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Define loose? Like multiple trips to the bathroom a day? Or just one?
As long as you don't keep eating the bread one trip.

What I forgot to mention is, that I made cookies with the same sourdough starter and flour, and there is no issue with them. Maybe I just need to bake my bread more. I want to try 2 hours next.
The bread.
Okay, I will give this a try as well.
 
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Beermeister32

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This problem is known as auto fermentation. It occurs when some people (not everyone) ingest quantities of yeast or bacteria in the gut.

The live yeast and/or bacteria continue fermenting the bread sugar/starches while in the gut causing painful bloating and loose stools while your body expels it.

The cure is to make sure the bread is baked long and hot enough to kill the yeast and bacteria in the core of the loaf.
 

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mbronkalla

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Don't rely on time and temp for baking. Use the actual temperature. My mixed grain sourdough breads go for 193F and some to 202F (but that is a bit dark and dry). I insert the probe after 10 min of baking so as not to tear a hole. I like using the thermoworks slim waterproof needle probe (also great for brewing). Also treat the dough, work areas and hands as bacterially contaminated (which they are from the sourdough culture). Scrub everything well after working the dough.
 

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+1 on use a thermometer.


However, I bake my sourdough at 425° or 30-40 minutes. Any longer I I start making ash. 70 minutes at a low heat should completely cook bread (same concept in low and slow BBQ - you end up with a more even cook). In any case, my understanding is bread is fully baked at an internal temp of 190°. It should be moist coming out of the oven as steam is what makes it rise in the oven. That will dissipate as it cools.
 

Hoppy2bmerry

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I have read that sour dough should be cooked to an internal temperature of 212F.
I have read between 190F and 212F, (as it rests the cooking continues) and also when I take a temp if the probe is not dry and has gummy bits it needs more time regardless of the internal temp.
I’m not familiar with this flour, but I might also experiment with increasing BF and CF duration.
 
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MarthaSprung

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Thanks for all the helpful answers.
This problem is known as auto fermentation. It occurs when some people (not everyone) ingest quantities of yeast or bacteria in the gut.
Interesting, I'll read up on that.
Don't rely on time and temp for baking. Use the actual temperature. My mixed grain sourdough breads go for 193F and some to 202F (but that is a bit dark and dry). I insert the probe after 10 min of baking so as not to tear a hole. I like using the thermoworks slim waterproof needle probe (also great for brewing).
Okay, I don't use any thermometer.
This seems to be a part of a larger system? Is there convenient budget thermometer I can measure the temperature of my bread with?
Also treat the dough, work areas and hands as bacterially contaminated (which they are from the sourdough culture). Scrub everything well after working the dough.
Okay, I will take extra care to keep the dough clean. I have the issue consistently with my bread, maybe my starter is contaminated?
However, I bake my sourdough at 425° or 30-40 minutes. Any longer I I start making ash. 70 minutes at a low heat should completely cook bread (same concept in low and slow BBQ - you end up with a more even cook). In any case, my understanding is bread is fully baked at an internal temp of 190°. It should be moist coming out of the oven as steam is what makes it rise in the oven. That will dissipate as it cools.
Mine is moist even when cooled. I think measuring the temperature of the bread is a good approach. If the temperature is correct, maybe I just have to put less water in it.
I have read between 190F and 212F, (as it rests the cooking continues) and also when I take a temp if the probe is not dry and has gummy bits it needs more time regardless of the internal temp.
That is good to know.
I’m not familiar with this flour, but I might also experiment with increasing BF and CF duration.
What's that?
 

madscientist451

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Substitute bread carbs for beer carbs. Problem solved. Although you'll still have to hit the bathroom.....

:mug:

It may seem like a joke, but seriously, since, I've cut way back on bread, potatoes, rice and any kind of snacks with carbs, I feel way better.
Your results may vary.....
 

DBhomebrew

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Unfortunately nothing about emmer bread on there.

Yeah, but lots on other heritage grains, sourdough starter maintenance, dough management, controlling fermentation, baking temps/times, finished bread temp, loaf resting/curing, general 'am-I-doing-this-sourdough-thing-right' info.

If you want info specifically regarding emmer and gut health, might I suggest consulting a doctor, nutritionist or somesuch?
 

DBhomebrew

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Emmer isn't some bizarre, strange grain. It's just an ancient type high in fiber and protein. Recipes and info for other such grains, even basic whole grain wheat, would be helpful. You're not trying to bake bread from a potato.

Also, the author of The Perfect Loaf is extremely communicative with his audience via the comments at the bottom of any of his recipes. Give him a shout, perhaps on the einkorn recipe page.
 
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MarthaSprung

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NSMikeD

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Mine is moist even when cooled. I think measuring the temperature of the bread is a good approach. If the temperature is correct, maybe I just have to put less water in it.

I had to look up and learn about emmer flour as your hydration (56%) is way lower than what I bake (80%) and that made me curious. I like to target 80% hydration with 400g water and 500g of flour (150g KA whole wheat and 350g KA bread flour). The high protein of bread and whole wheat flour supports the high hydration. What I learned is that even though emmer its a high protein flour, it's unique low gluten properties require a lower hydration. what I read was in line with 60%. So I don't think you are over hydrating your dough.

There was an earlier post about fermentation. An article I read mentioned longer bulk fermentation and shorter proofing amount other handling adjustments from standard wheat.

Also, It may sound counter intuitive but I can see a lower hydration leading to less evaporation. He's my logic. Higher hydrated doughs (with active fermentation and good gluten development) will have more "spring" or large open crumb. In other words, it will form steam more easily and that will escape while forming those appealing large holes in the bread. Emmer has poor gluten properties, lower hydration and sour dough, IME, is less active than commercial yeast. I think thats why is associated with flatbreads and dense loaves and unlike the airy loaves made with highly hydrated dough, make trap more moisture. maybe.

I don't think this helps with solving the digestion issue, but I do hope it helps with the moisture issue. And your thread has got me wanting to look more into emmer and possibly attempting a load or two (articles raved about the flavor of emmer flour bread).
 

Hoppy2bmerry

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What's that?
BF - bulk ferment, CF- cold ferment or “cold retard”.
Perhaps some info here could be helpful. Flour
I’m curious if you would share some images of your bakes and the crumb. Perhaps if you are using 100% emmer a reduced amount with some strong flour would help. Longer fermentation purportedly makes the gluten less irksome for sensitive systems. Anyway, I hope something here is helpful.
 

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Thanks for the tip. I have my info from here:

He also wrote a whole book you can get for free here:

And he has a youtube channel:

I don't know why my bread causes people to get loose bowel movements, but I will try the tips posted here first.
Use less water in the recipe and let the bread stand for at least two or three days. Then everything will be fine. If the bread is still "doughy" after baking, it means that you are baking it not long enough or that you are using too much water in the dough, or maybe both. As soon as you get that dialed in and manage to not eat the bread for a few days, you'll have the best digestible bread you can get.
 
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mbronkalla

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Thanks for all the helpful answers.

Interesting, I'll read up on that.

Okay, I don't use any thermometer.
This seems to be a part of a larger system? Is there convenient budget thermometer I can measure the temperature of my bread with?

Okay, I will take extra care to keep the dough clean. I have the issue consistently with my bread, maybe my starter is contaminated?

Mine is moist even when cooled. I think measuring the temperature of the bread is a good approach. If the temperature is correct, maybe I just have to put less water in it.

That is good to know.

What's that?
The probe can be used with the Thermoworks thermometers, such as the Dot and Chefalarm. We have 2 Chefalarms. I like being able to set the alarm temp (e.g. 193F for bread) and be able to go and do other things until the temp alarm goes off. I'll also second the Breadcode recommendation.
 
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MarthaSprung

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I had to look up and learn about emmer flour as your hydration (56%) is way lower than what I bake (80%) and that made me curious. I like to target 80% hydration with 400g water and 500g of flour (150g KA whole wheat and 350g KA bread flour). The high protein of bread and whole wheat flour supports the high hydration. What I learned is that even though emmer its a high protein flour, it's unique low gluten properties require a lower hydration. what I read was in line with 60%. So I don't think you are over hydrating your dough.

There was an earlier post about fermentation. An article I read mentioned longer bulk fermentation and shorter proofing amount other handling adjustments from standard wheat.

Also, It may sound counter intuitive but I can see a lower hydration leading to less evaporation. He's my logic. Higher hydrated doughs (with active fermentation and good gluten development) will have more "spring" or large open crumb. In other words, it will form steam more easily and that will escape while forming those appealing large holes in the bread. Emmer has poor gluten properties, lower hydration and sour dough, IME, is less active than commercial yeast. I think thats why is associated with flatbreads and dense loaves and unlike the airy loaves made with highly hydrated dough, make trap more moisture. maybe.

I don't think this helps with solving the digestion issue, but I do hope it helps with the moisture issue. And your thread has got me wanting to look more into emmer and possibly attempting a load or two (articles raved about the flavor of emmer flour bread).
This is good to know. I will keep it in mind. The emmer flour cookies I made, were very easy on my digestive system.
Use less water in the recipe and let the bread stand for at least two or three days. Then everything will be fine. If the bread is still "doughy" after baking, it means that you are baking it not long enough or that you are using too much water in the dough, or maybe both. As soon as you get that dialed in and manage to not eat the bread for a few days, you'll have the best digestible bread you can get.
I will follow your instructions. Thank you very much!
The probe can be used with the Thermoworks thermometers, such as the Dot and Chefalarm. We have 2 Chefalarms. I like being able to set the alarm temp (e.g. 193F for bread) and be able to go and do other things until the temp alarm goes off. I'll also second the Breadcode recommendation.
That is very convenient indeed.
 

ajmetzger

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Thanks for all the helpful answers.

Interesting, I'll read up on that.

Okay, I don't use any thermometer.
This seems to be a part of a larger system? Is there convenient budget thermometer I can measure the temperature of my bread with?

Okay, I will take extra care to keep the dough clean. I have the issue consistently with my bread, maybe my starter is contaminated?

Mine is moist even when cooled. I think measuring the temperature of the bread is a good approach. If the temperature is correct, maybe I just have to put less water in it.

That is good to know.

What's that?
I find that a Thermoworks thermapen works well. The probe is thin, like a needle, so you don't need to worry about gouging a big hole in your loaves. I bake a lot of rye bread from a rye sour I've had going for several years. The best way I've found to gauge doneness is by temperature, for rye, 198 - 202 F.

I've never had a starter get contaminated -- die from neglect, yes, but contaminated, no. Does your starter still smell good?

As for moisture, moist is one thing, gummy is another. How are you kneading -- by hand, in a stand mixer, bread machine? You should be able to get a good feel for moisture if you need by hand. In a stand mixer, it's also not too hard, you just have to watch what the dough is doing on the dough hook and give it a poke with a finger (turning off the machine first!) once in awhile.

Finally, may I recommend The Bread Baker's Apprentice? It's a wonderful resource of techniques and recipes.

Happy baking!
 

bernardsmith

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Always very easy to impute a cause when the problem is located elsewhere. If you used the same flour and same starter for the cookies and no-one reported any discomfort then the problem may not be caused by the sourdough bread. You will almost certainly have killed any bacteria that the dough MAY have picked up from any surface you were using to knead or strengthn the dough. (you are not vegetarian?) But a sanitized work surface may something to focus on for any next loaf. Might you or members of your household have eaten something around the same time that may have upset your stomach?
As someone suggested above, live yeast cells are claimed by some to be able to survive in your stomach (the pH of gastric acids can be as low as 1.5 - and no yeast , I know, will ferment anything at that level of acidity ... ) and ferment any undigested sugars... BUT if bake bread at 350, 400, 450 or 500 F , no yeast IN THE DOUGH will survive any of those temperatures, which is not to say that no yeast floating in the air in your kitchen won't then glom onto the cooled loaf BUT a few cells ain't going to do anything. A colony consists of hundreds of billions of cells.
Bottom line: Might your upset stomach have been caused by a concurrent cause and not by the sourdough bread itself? fwhat else might have eaten that upset your stomach? Might the counter surface you used have been contaminated with e-coli or another bacterium from meat or eggs that contaminated other uncooked foods you might have eaten?
 
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