Sour/tart Voss kveik

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konofaye

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Question for kveik users out there. Made an IPA two weeks ago using two old vials of Voss Kveik from White Labs. One had a best by of August 2017 and the other August 2018. Fermentation was slow to start but took off at 75, first off gassing sulfur and then lots of tropical fruit and orange. When I tapped the keg today, the beer had a tartness going on sour. I’ve used Voss before but never had such a pronounced sour note. I’m assuming it’s because the yeast was so old and, although I oxygenated with pure O2 for a minute, they were stressed and produced this off character.

Has anyone had this experience with Voss before?

Recipe was Pilsner, wheat, flaked wheat, carawheat, cara red and black patent; CTZ for bitter and equal parts (2 oz each) of Zythos Cascade and Willow Creek (neomexicanus) split between 0 minutes and 170 degrees.
 
Have you checked the pH? I've read that these yeasts take the pH much lower, so I mash at a higher pH.
Does that work in your experience (side-by-side trials)?

Lowering the mash pH to the ideal range 5.4-5.5 (measured @20°C) increases phosphatase activity, which increases the buffering capacity of the wort, which may ultimately lead to a higher final pH in a case like this.

I’ve used Voss before but never had such a pronounced sour note. I’m assuming it’s because the yeast was so old
I agree the sour taste may be partly from excessive residual acetaldehyde due to a poor fermentation.

Flaked wheat is also known to add a little tartness, and of course the yeast strain plays a role.
 
I don't do side by sides , and all but one beer with Kveik were darker brews and I mash those at 5.5. My next one is a wit recipe with flaked grains. My normal pH for this beer is 5.2 but I changed the water profile to get 5.4, so we'll see if its tart or not.
 
5.4 is the low end of ideal (5.4-5.5 measured at room temp) according to leading experts.
 
I mashed at 5.3 (measured at 80F), fwiw. After some conditioning at 39F, beer dropped a lot of it’s sourness. It’s still tart, though more bearable for the style. Still not my favorite, but lesson learned. All apricot and pineapple. Not the best combination or presentation of those flavors. Reminds me of the sour #9 Magic Hat did last year with Hermit Thrush, which was really great. This not so much.

Thanks!
 
I found wheat ruins kveik it gets so sour . Wheat extract kit tins, dry wheat malt powder, or unmalted flaked , kibbled, etc

I dont have any ph testing gear or experience tho
 
Interesting thanks i may give it another go. The yeast is making much better beer now i have repeatedly reused it for 1.5 years , including 6 months in the fridge. My PA's have lost their sour twang too
 
I brewed a fairly dark ale with 3 lbs of honey in the mix, using Lallemand's dry voss kveik, and the resulting beer is cidery/tart. If I had to do it again, I'd hold the honey at 1 lb.
 
I tried honey once, never again. Results just in : if you are doing extract kit brewing ...a steep with 250g light crystal malt seems to leave a TINY bit of residual sweetness that counters the voss twang , and gives you a better beer.

You can do stout with kveik but you need a bit of lactose ( min 250g for 23L) again to counter the twang
 
Yes, that was my experience with MJ's voss. Made a tangy orangy stout with it. No temperature control so might have gone to the high 20s Cs. Apparently, kveik is known to drop the ph See here. Brewed a slightly modified stout with lutra and it was really clean and not tangy. Preferred lutra.
 
Talk of ph and adding gypsum and things, I havent played with yet how does it work? Lower ph is more sour?
 
Yes, but in this case, is for mash purposes. You need the mash pH in certain range and sometimes water lake of minerals, so you could use some salts that drop pH.

But yeasts drop pH even more in fermentation and there's differences between some of them. Using Kveik leads to a lower pH in final beer, compared to other yeasts, despite mash pH adjustments. It's natural and beneficial, because inhibits spoilage microorganisms.
 
Overpitching is another common problem with kveik yeasts in general, so you might get a ton of yeasty flavor.
 
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