Sour mash blended to IPA

[Grod1]

I have close to 100 brews under my belt and i just started my first IPA!
I despise IPAs but i have been nagged into agreeing on a sour IPA. As we all know there are more than a few ways one can go about it, this is what i chose.
Sour mash blended to a clean IPA with summer hops.The sour mash i am undergoing is a little unconventional. In fact its not a mash at all. What I did was rehydrate a 50/50 mix of Pilsen DME & wild agave nectar with 170F water. I collected this in corny kegs and now they are sitting mostly submerged in 90F water with a bootleg biology's Sour weapon L. In 5 days this will be hopefully be soured and will be blended 50/50 with a clean IPA.
I will share results as this moves forward and as i perfect this technique. Please share any comments, ask questions or feel free to school me/send links that can help on my adventure.

Batch Size: 36 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 38 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.076 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 68% (brew house)
OG1.080 FG: 1.020 ABV 7.85% IBU:41.36 SRM 5.08
55 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 54.2%
12 lb American - White Wheat 40 2.8 11.8%
12 lb Dry Malt Extract - Pilsen 42 2 11.8%
10 lb German - Acidulated Malt 27 3.4 9.9%
6 lb Agave Nectar 52.5 2 5.9%
3.5 lb Flaked Wheat 34 2 3.4%
3 lb German carafoam- 37 1.8 3%
primary on
6 jars Trader Joe's Pear Halves in White Grape Juice 5.25# pear/(0.51) gallons juice
potentially many pounds of additional fruit.
maybe some citric acid blend if the total volume of beer isn't sour enough.
101.5 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
6 oz Summer Pellet 7.8 Boil 50 min 18.68
2 oz Cascade Pellet 7.7 Boil 30 min 4.97
5 oz Summer Pellet 7.8 Boil 20 min 9.91
2 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Boil 15 min 4.17
6 oz East Kent Goldings Pellet 5 Boil 5 min 2.51
6 oz East Kent Goldings Pellet 5 Boil 1 min 0.54
3 oz Summer Pellet 7.8 Boil 1 min 0.42

The agave is only for the sour mash, i really dont want it to lend sweetness.
I brew sours and stouts so hops are not exactly my expertise.
anyone think i should add citra/mosaic/amarillo/ lupulin powder or anything else the hopheads love.?

 

[phofmann]

I have not brewed very many sours so far, but my fiance loves sour beer and brewing sours helps convince her that the hobby is money well spent. I have brewed several IPAs, and have had a chance to try multiple sour IPAs from Barbarian Brewing and fell in love with them. Brewing a sour IPA has been on my to-do list for a while now, so I will be following your progress.

Off subject, the Bootleg Biology yeast (and their harvesting system) look awesome and I think I will use one of their strains for the next generation of the Kriek that I brew.

 

[Grod1]

i absolutely love bootleg biology i am extremely happy with everything i have used from them. their soleras are amazing the mad fermentations makes acceptably sour beers in about 4-5 weeks and the "new world" saison pafait is probably my favorite saison period.

 

[phofmann]

Awesome! Good to know! We are getting hops from my fiance's uncle and it would be awesome to harvest some wild yeast from his backyard to use in the brew.

 

[phofmann]

(accidental repost deleted)

 

[Grod1]

Anyone have a suggestion for a recommend IBU? I have them round 40ish.I was just reading a post here on hbt that claims when you hop soured wort the "hop utilization" is cut in half.Anyone know anything about that? should i aim for 80!?!.does anyone know of any articles that can explain this? Also is there a recommended PH for a sour IPA or its really just preference?i think i will add citric acid blend to adjust the taste of boiled wort if needed not lactic acid. I have also read about people using barrel aged sherry vinegars to add acetic acid in flanderesk ales. but i am assuming that is not wanted in a SIPA.

 

[Grod1]

No one huh? Everything I said sounds perfect? no one has any suggestions, comments, or any sort of input that can help steer someone in a good direction.
great. im brewing tomorrow i guess i will nail it.
i found a decent read":Hoppy sour beers" if anyone wants to take a look. Within the article it mentions crystal is a winner when it come to hops for sour beers. I just so happen to have a oz of crystal lupulin
holy fluff you can buy lupulin powder from walmart
so i had time today and decided to mash in.n Im not sure the 17 hours will be enough time to sour mash the wort but i figured it would only help.

 

[Grod1]

So the brew went smooth today the "sour mash" tasted excellent.Really light SRM somewhere around 2-3. I was a bit worried by the smell because it smelled really sweet and had no desirable sour notes i was waiting for.The boiled sour mash tasted light crisp and pleasantly sour with some wild notes and a ph of 3.1 it accounts for 36% if the beers total volume.
I foolishly forgot to get other ph readings.
The kids aren't alright final brewed
OG:1.073/Final Gravity:1.015/ABV 7.63% IBU 43.16/SRM 5.11
55 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 53.6%
12.5 lb Dry Malt Extract - Pilsen 42 2 12.2%
12 lb American - White Wheat 40 2.8 11.7%
10 lb German - Acidulated Malt 27 3.4 9.7%
5.8 lb Agave Nectar 52.5 2 5.6%
3 lb German - Carapils 35 1.3 2.9%
2.2 lb Flaked Oats 33 2.2 2.1%
2.2 lb Flaked Wheat 34 2 2.1%
5.25# pear/(0.51)gallons white grape juice added to cleaned fermentor
102.7 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
6 oz Summer Pellet 7.8 Boil 50 min 19.81
2 oz Cascade Pellet 7.7 Boil 30 min 5.27
1.5 oz Centennial Pellet 10 Boil 20 min 4.04
6 oz Summer Pellet 7.8 Boil 15 min 10.34
6 oz East Kent Goldings Pellet 5.1 Boil 5 min 2.72
4 oz East Kent Goldings Pellet 5.1 Boil 1 min 0.39
4 oz Summer Pellet 7.8 Boil 1 min 0.6
1 oz Cascade LupuLN2 Lupulin Pellet 12 Boil 0 min
1 oz Crystal Lupulin Pellet 12.4 Boil 0 min
Show Summary View
Mash Guidelines-- overnight ;0) -- 152-132 F 960 min
Other Ingredients
2 oz acid blend Water Agt Boil 0 min.
6 qt pear halves in white grape juice Flavor Primary --
Yeast
The Yeast Bay - Vermont Ale Additional Yeast: chardonnay

 

[Grod1]

it got dry hopped with 2 oz crystal lupulin and 4 oz nelson pellet.
cold crashing now. Its a lil under attenuated but im out of time. it 7.02 ABV with a slight crisp tartness that is matched be the slight dryness of the grape juice/agave. i thnk i will up the % of sour mash to 50% but i know i dont like 100%.I am getting a slight bubble gum flavor that is not my favorite.(maybe from the summer hops or pears or both)
The lupulin dry hop gave me more bitterness then i was expecting.Its good but it stopped me from double dry hopping.
I will keg tomorrow and get some reviews by monday.
cheers

 

[sakul]

how did you go with this mate?

had a soured IPA recently and really enjoyed it

 

[Grod1]

i have done many sour ipas recently with different ratios of sour mash to clean wort. 50/50 seems pretty good but when it comes down to it people want sour as **** so going 100% seems to have the most desirable effects.
Hopping is a ***** im using like 2#s a barrel + a# in dry hop + lupulin and im still only getting good results, i have not "nailed it" on hopping sour ipas yet. i havent tried one commercial example with great hop characteristic.
a heavy bittering at 50 mins with old world hops it my go to for a start.
when blending packaged sour ipa with fresh packaged ipa it seems to keep all hop character.
Souring good old DME with no boil works amazing.5 gallon bucket with submergible fish tank heater. i use these probiotic pills and they work so great its unbelievable.
blend that with your all grain recipe or just boil/hop