Quantcast

Sour flavor in a braggot?

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Shawn Lewis

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
42
Reaction score
12
I'm a newb. Been brewing mead for 9 months or so, just a handful of batches. Discovered LME and have two 1 gallon braggot brews.

One is very sour and I have no idea why.

It's got:
1# Briess Dark LME
1# dark maple syrup
1 gallon strong chamomile tea
Lalvin BM4X4 yeast
chopped raisins

Looks like fermentation is complete. Two days ago it was notably less sour. Today it is tart.
ABV is around 4.5%

Anyone have any ideas why it would be sour? The yeast?

Thanks in advance!
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
3,273
Reaction score
1,839
Location
Bremen
I'm a newb. Been brewing mead for 9 months or so, just a handful of batches. Discovered LME and have two 1 gallon braggot brews.

One is very sour and I have no idea why.

It's got:
1# Briess Dark LME
1# dark maple syrup
1 gallon strong chamomile tea
Lalvin BM4X4 yeast
chopped raisins

Looks like fermentation is complete. Two days ago it was notably less sour. Today it is tart.
ABV is around 4.5%

Anyone have any ideas why it would be sour? The yeast?

Thanks in advance!
You have residual sugar from the extract and you have lactos that love to turn those sugar into lactic acid. Hops would prevent them from doing so, but as your brew is without hops, the lactic acid bacteria munch the sugar away and leave the brew soured.

You can still drink it, if you like the taste of it. Aging also sometimes does wonders to sours.
 
Last edited:

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
3,669
Reaction score
5,899
Location
Albany
You have residual sugar from the extract and you have lactos that love to turn those sugar into lactic acid. Hops would prevent them from doing so, but as your brew is without hops, the lactic acid bacteria munch the sugar away and leave the brew soured.

You can still drink it, if you like the taste of it. Aging also sometimes does wonder to sours.
Like @Miraculix stated, you got a lacto or Pen. contamination. Those strains can add some nice flavors to a beer. May be a beautiful mistake.
 

bernardsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
5,013
Reaction score
1,577
Location
Saratoga Springs
I agree that it is possible that the "problem" is a lacto infection but you say the fermentation is complete although you say the ABV is about 4.5%. How did you halt that fermentation? I ask because I would assume that the LME is giving you about 35 points and the maple syrup has about the same gravity. That would mean that your starting gravity would be around 1.070. Let's assume that the FG will be around 1.015 (because of the unfermentables in the grain sugar) so your ABV would have come from about 55 points of sugar. That's about 7% ABV. Now at about 7% ABV, given the recipe (chamomile and maple syrup) , this mead, (OK, Braggot) may have a bitter after-taste. Is it sour or bitter? Bitter and sour are not the same. Sour is like yogurt. Lemon is bitter.
 
OP
S

Shawn Lewis

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
42
Reaction score
12
Thanks for all the feedback. The flavor is definitely tart, like yogurt. I appreciate the info about hops.

How did you halt that fermentation? I ask because I would assume that the LME is giving you about 35 points and the maple syrup has about the same gravity. That would mean that your starting gravity would be around 1.070. Let's assume that the FG will be around 1.015 (because of the unfermentables in the grain sugar) so your ABV would have come from about 55 points of sugar. That's about 7% ABV. Now at about 7% ABV, given the recipe (chamomile and maple syrup) , this mead, (OK, Braggot) may have a bitter after-taste. Is it sour or bitter? Bitter and sour are not the same. Sour is like yogurt. Lemon is bitter.
Your math is right on, bernardsmith. The potential ABV was about 7% before I pitched the yeast, but the brew has stopped at 1.03 FG. I did not stop it. Not sure what did. Can lacto eat up the remaining sugars and halt fermentation?

Thanks, again, all :D
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
3,273
Reaction score
1,839
Location
Bremen
Thanks for all the feedback. The flavor is definitely tart, like yogurt. I appreciate the info about hops.



Your math is right on, bernardsmith. The potential ABV was about 7% before I pitched the yeast, but the brew has stopped at 1.03 FG. I did not stop it. Not sure what did. Can lacto eat up the remaining sugars and halt fermentation?

Thanks, again, all :D
I guess it is the type of yeast. A wine yeast that is not able to ferment complex sugars will leave a lot behind when confronted with wort (in this case extract) as the wort is made up of a variety of more complex sugars than just glucose and fructose.

I think the lactic guys will only sour it up until they reach a certain PH, then it will be too sour for them and they will stop. It is likely that some sugars will be left after this, but I am not an sour beer expert.
 

RPh_Guy

Bringing Sour Back
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
9,173
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Cleveland
Can lacto eat up the remaining sugars and halt fermentation?
Lacto eats very little sugar. I agree the sourness is likely from a bacterial contamination.

the brew has stopped at 1.03 FG. I did not stop it. Not sure what did.
The reason FG is so high is because wine yeast does not ferment wort very well. Normally you should use a beer yeast to ferment barley.
BM4x4 produces completive factor, so adding normal beer yeast really isn't an option at this point.
If you want to bring down the gravity your best bet is to add some glucoamylase to break down the dextrins. Adding Brettanomyces yeast is another option; it will consume much of the remaining sugar and also add some delicious flavor :)
 
OP
S

Shawn Lewis

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
42
Reaction score
12
I guess it is the type of yeast. A wine yeast that is not able to ferment complex sugars will leave a lot behind when confronted with wort (in this case extract) as the wort is made up of a variety of more complex sugars than just glucose and fructose.



I think the lactic guys will only sour it up until they reach a certain PH, then it will be too sour for them and they will stop. It is likely that some sugars will be left after this, but I am not an sour beer expert.
Huh. Thank you so much for the info! I didn't realize there was such a big difference between better and wine yeasts.
 
OP
S

Shawn Lewis

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
42
Reaction score
12
Lacto eats very little sugar. I agree the sourness is likely from a bacterial contamination.


The reason FG is so high is because wine yeast does not ferment wort very well. Normally you should use a beer yeast to ferment barley.
BM4x4 produces completive factor, so adding normal beer yeast really isn't an option at this point.
If you want to bring down the gravity your best bet is to add some glucoamylase to break down the dextrins. Adding Brettanomyces yeast is another option; it will consume much of the remaining sugar and also add some delicious flavor :)
Ok thank you!
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
3,273
Reaction score
1,839
Location
Bremen
Brett would surely be nice, but would also take some time to show results. If you plan to age it for at least a few months, it would be a good option!
 
Top