Berliner Weisse Sour Cherry Berliner Weisse

[EDF713]

Recipe Type

All Grain

Yeast

Fermentis / Safale - German Ale Yeast K-97

Yeast Starter

No

Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter

Kettle soured with Lactobacillus Plantarum

Batch Size (Gallons)

5

Original Gravity

1.032

Final Gravity

1.010

Boiling Time (Minutes)

30

IBU

5.39

Color

Red!

Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)

14 days at 68 degrees F

Tasting Notes

Sour and Cherries

My goal with this recipe was a pleasantly sour, refreshing lower alcohol beer with plenty of tart cherry flavor that was easy to make. This is my first sour, and I wanted to keep it as simple and quick as possible. I started with a Berliner Weisse-styled recipe, kettle soured with Swanson’s Lactobacillus Plantarum probiotics, then added tart cherry juice after primary.

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Berliner Weisse
Boil Time: 30 min
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.052
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
Original Gravity: 1.032
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 3.0%
IBU (tinseth): 5.39
SRM (morey): very red

FERMENTABLES:
2.5 lb - American - Pale 2-Row
2.5 lb - American - Wheat
0.25 lb - German - Acidulated Malt
2 quarts of Kroger Organics Tart Cherry Juice - secondary (similar to RW Knudsen)
1 quart of Kroger Organics Tart Cherry Juice for bottle priming

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Saaz, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.11, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 5.39

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 4 gal

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - German Ale Yeast K-97
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Fermentation Temp: 68 F

Water Notes:
3.5 gallons of filtered tap water, added ¼ crushed campden tablet and a teaspoon each of calcium chloride and gypsum prior to mash. Along with Acidulated malt, mash ph calculated 5.38 by brunwater.

Recipe Notes:
I did an all grain BIAB Mash in 5 gal kettle using a paint strainer bag, 152 degrees for one hour. After draining/squeezing the grains I brought to a boil for a moment, cooled to 90 degrees, and ended up with a little over 3 gallons of wort. Once cooled, I added 5 capsules of Swanson’s lactobacillus plantarum to kettle sour, emptying the capsules into the wort. I also added sparkling water to provide some CO2 (I don’t have kegging equipment to purge the kettle headspace). After 2 days sitting at room temp of 78, I checked the wort pH – it was 3.29. I then boiled for 30 minutes, adding a half ounce of US Saaz for 15 minutes to get about 5 IBUs. I then chilled, dumped into my fermenter, and topped off with 2 gallons of cold water for a total of 4.75 gallons (knowing I was going to add a half gallon of cherry juice later). While I normally do full volume boils in a keggle, I was ok with a partial boil since hop utilization was not a concern, and chilled top-off water shortened my chilling time. I then pitched one packet of Safale K-97 and fermented at 68 degrees. After primary fermentation settled down (4 days), I gently poured two quart bottles of Kroger Organics tart cherry juice directly into the fermentor (I’m too lazy to transfer to secondary) and fermented another 10 days. Each bottle of the juice has 140 grams of sugar, which was about right for priming, so after 14 days total I bottled, priming with a third bottle of the juice. You will need to add more sugar for 5 gallons if you use the RW Knudsen’s juice and bottle since it has less sugar in it.

I did not get great attenuation, the next time I make a sour I will pitch more yeast, either two packets or by building a starter with liquid yeast, and will probably not go as sour on the kettle fermentation.

As you can see from the picture, it is red! The beer has a pleasant sourness with loads of cherry flavor. For my next batch I would consider a few changes – adding lactic acid to reduce pH before adding the plantarum (I’ve read it improves head retention), pitching more yeast, and using more traditional German malts for a little more malt flavor (Vienna, Light Munich, Pilsener). You can also adjust the amount of tart cherry juice to your taste, I wouldn’t add more than three bottles.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Thanks for sharing, sounds great!

What made you pick Safale K-97 and how did it perform in your opinion? Did you rehydrate it (in water)?
Did you check a final pH of your beer?
Does the Swanson's L. plantarum add any noticeable flavors by your estimation?
Is the cherry/sour/sweet balance in any way comparable to Lindeman's Kriek, Ommegang Rosetta, or another commercial cherry sour/kriek ?

I'm thinking the sparkling water probably wasn't necessary (or beneficial), but props for thinking outside the box.

 

[EDF713]

Thanks for sharing, sounds great!

What made you pick Safale K-97 and how did it perform in your opinion? Did you rehydrate it (in water)?
Did you check a final pH of your beer?
Does the Swanson's L. plantarum add any noticeable flavors by your estimation?
Is the cherry/sour/sweet balance in any way comparable to Lindeman's Kriek, Ommegang Rosetta, or another commercial cherry sour/kriek ?

I'm thinking the sparkling water probably wasn't necessary (or beneficial), but props for thinking outside the box.

To be fair, a friend suggested the sparkling water, but agree it's probably not necessary. Once you open the kettle it doesn't matter does it?

I picked K 97 since it is a clean German Ale yeast, but shame on me, I didn't rehydrate out of laziness, likely of the reasons it did not attenuate great. I recommend rehydrating with 2 packs, and next sour I may try S5 or 1056. I didn't bother with a final pH check, did I mention I was lazy?

I would not compare to Lindemanns, I would say it's more sour and less sweet, much less carbonation, and it didn't take long to make. I would say it's more like a cherry version of Saint Arnold's raspberry AF, though a superior beer to what I made.

Plantarum gives a very clean sourness, no funk, no earthiness, no barnyard. And it works at room temp, a big plus.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Gases tend to mix very quickly, so a CO2 "blanket" will dissipate within a short time. Because you used a lab culture, there shouldn't be any aerobic bacteria in there, which makes the CO2 unnecessary (and L. plantarum is aerotolerant). The main concern is trying to maintain a good seal so other bacteria don't make their way into the kettle. Pre-acidification helps prevent infection in addition to helping prevent head protein degradation

I used a different source of bacteria (mixed but containing L. plantarum) for a kettle sour and got an amazing cereal taste (I've heard it called "Capn Crunch" flavor). Unfortunately it disappeared during bottle conditioning... Oxidation? Who knows but I'm going to try it again with my next kettle sour.

Bacteria do produce a substantial array of flavors but we probably lose them during the boil when kettle souring. Check out this great article if you can tolerate the chemistry https://phdinbeer.com/2015/04/13/physiology-of-flavors-in-beer-lactobacillus-species/

I hear Brett does particularly well with cherries so I'll probably use a more traditional sour method when I start making cherry beers, but it's nice to know there is a good fast option too. Maybe I could do both and compare them side by side. Sounds like a good excuse to brew more!

 

[Jeremy_35]

Thanks for sharing this recipe, it sounds delicious. I'm going to try my first kettle sour with your recipe, with a few minor tweaks, namely increasing the grains bill to up the ABV to closer to 4% Besides what you mentioned already, are there any other things you'd change?

How did the hops do with the tart cherry flavor? After looking into North Coast Brewing's Cherry Berliner Weisse, I'm leaning towards no hops at all. Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[EDF713]

Thanks for sharing this recipe, it sounds delicious. I'm going to try my first kettle sour with your recipe, with a few minor tweaks, namely increasing the grains bill to up the ABV to closer to 4% Besides what you mentioned already, are there any other things you'd change?

How did the hops do with the tart cherry flavor? After looking into North Coast Brewing's Cherry Berliner Weisse, I'm leaning towards no hops at all. Thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks for checking it out! I have enjoyed this one. I can't really taste the hops, they're barely there and you probably wouldn't notice skipping them, but I've never tried making beer without them. The only other things I would change would be adding some Vienna or light Munich for a touch more malt flavor, and adding some lactic to lower the ph prior to souring. I read on milk the funk that can help head retention, this beer had none. Let me know how it goes!

 

[bigbazookatooth]

I made a very similar recipe with an OG of 1.055 using 45% Pilsener Malt, 45% Wheat malt, and 10% crystal 60 (for just a bit of maltiness - I would knock this down to crystal 15 or 30 or something next time to lighten the color). I pH adjusted to 4.5 with 88% lactic acid and soured to 3.4 with Goodbelly shots (L. plantarum). My juice addition was 12oz per gallon tart cherry juice (frozen) to the wort after the post-sour boil. The beer was hopped with Saaz for ~5 IBU and fermented with US-05. Bottled with dextrose to 2.8 volumes.

I really liked how this turned out, and the head retention is really good having adjusted the pH of the wort. My beer has a nice jammy cherry scent, crisp mouthfeel, with a light cherry taste complemented by some background maltiness. I know the higher ABV is out of character with the style, but I think the tartness supports the extra alcohol.

 

[EDF713]

I made a very similar recipe with an OG of 1.055 using 45% Pilsener Malt, 45% Wheat malt, and 10% crystal 60 (for just a bit of maltiness - I would knock this down to crystal 15 or 30 or something next time to lighten the color). I pH adjusted to 4.5 with 88% lactic acid and soured to 3.4 with Goodbelly shots (L. plantarum). My juice addition was 12oz per gallon tart cherry juice (frozen) to the wort after the post-sour boil. The beer was hopped with Saaz for ~5 IBU and fermented with US-05. Bottled with dextrose to 2.8 volumes.

I really liked how this turned out, and the head retention is really good having adjusted the pH of the wort. My beer has a nice jammy cherry scent, crisp mouthfeel, with a light cherry taste complemented by some background maltiness. I know the higher ABV is out of character with the style, but I think the tartness supports the extra alcohol.

That sounds awesome! How did the US-05 attenuate? I’m thinking of doing another BV and can’t decide on yeast.

 

[bigbazookatooth]

That sounds awesome! How did the US-05 attenuate? I’m thinking of doing another BV and can’t decide on yeast.

I must admit, I broke my hydrometer so my FG is a calculated refractometer reading of 1.009, so it attenuated as expected. I think I might try a different yeast next time I give this a shot, just for laughs. This was my first attempt at a sour and I'm very pleased with it.

 

[EDF713]

I must admit, I broke my hydrometer so my FG is a calculated refractometer reading of 1.009, so it attenuated as expected. I think I might try a different yeast next time I give this a shot, just for laughs. This was my first attempt at a sour and I'm very pleased with it.

Ah, the old broken hydrometer. I don't brew a ton but I'm on my third one. Approximately 1.009 is a point lower than what I got on a lower gravity beer with K-97, I'm trying US-05 next.

 

[redllama]

Every yeast has its own pH tolerance. I have US-05 successfully in the past and I have heard others have had great success with the various Sacc Trois variants (wlp 644, Imperial Citrus, etc). Brett also has a lower pH tolerance so you could primary with that as well for something slightly different

 

[beerhappy]

Seriously considering brewing this to celebrate the arrival of our new baby in July. My wife loves sours and berliners in particular are quite refreshing when it's 100F outside. I'm thinking of going with raspberry juice instead and using liquid cultures for the lacto strain and yeast. Probably white labs WLP677 Lactobacillus delbrueckii for the souring and wyeast 1056 for the fermentation. Quick question, was there a reason you added the cherry juice later during fermentation instead of at the beginning?

 

[EDF713]

Seriously considering brewing this to celebrate the arrival of our new baby in July. My wife loves sours and berliners in particular are quite refreshing when it's 100F outside. I'm thinking of going with raspberry juice instead and using liquid cultures for the lacto strain and yeast. Probably white labs WLP677 Lactobacillus delbrueckii for the souring and wyeast 1056 for the fermentation. Quick question, was there a reason you added the cherry juice later during fermentation instead of at the beginning?

You know, most recipes for beers with fruit additions have them added for secondary. I was just following convention, but I don't know why people do this. I suppose more of the fruit flavor and aroma will hang around when added later, rather than gassed through the airlock. I am curious though if it makes a difference.

 

[RPh_Guy]

was there a reason you added the cherry juice later during fermentation instead of at the beginning?

more of the fruit flavor and aroma will hang around when added later, rather than gassed through the airlock.

Right

 

[boomtown25]

I made a very similar recipe with an OG of 1.055 using 45% Pilsener Malt, 45% Wheat malt, and 10% crystal 60 (for just a bit of maltiness - I would knock this down to crystal 15 or 30 or something next time to lighten the color). I pH adjusted to 4.5 with 88% lactic acid and soured to 3.4 with Goodbelly shots (L. plantarum). My juice addition was 12oz per gallon tart cherry juice (frozen) to the wort after the post-sour boil. The beer was hopped with Saaz for ~5 IBU and fermented with US-05. Bottled with dextrose to 2.8 volumes.

I really liked how this turned out, and the head retention is really good having adjusted the pH of the wort. My beer has a nice jammy cherry scent, crisp mouthfeel, with a light cherry taste complemented by some background maltiness. I know the higher ABV is out of character with the style, but I think the tartness supports the extra alcohol.

Do the goodbelly shots work exactly like say Omega Yeast Lacto Planarium? How long did you keep it on the lacto before boiling again?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Short answer:
Goodbelly works great. Sour until you reach your target pH ... about 12 to 96 hours.

Longer answer:
OYL 605 is a blend of L. plantarum and L. brevis. The brevis species is more hop-holerant, so this blend is a good all-purpose source of Lacto.
However for kettle sours where there are no hops while Lacto is working, plantarum is widely regarded as the best (i.e. fast, clean, easy) species. Any source of plantarum works well including lab cultures, probiotics, and even yogurt.
There may be minor differences between different plantarum strains but they all seem to work pretty well from what I've heard.
FWIW the lab cultures should have the smallest risk of contamination.

A pH meter is necessary if you want to control the amount of sourness, or you could use a TA kit (which is actually cheaper and better). You'd still need a pH meter if you plan to pre-acidify.
If you don't have a meter you can just let it ride with Lacto for 1-3 days at 70-75°F, with less time being less sour, or up around 98°F with an appropriate pitch if you want it done super fast, like 8-18 hours. Beware it maybe get pretty sour depending on pitch rate, temperature, and other factors.

Source: https://phdinbeer.com/2015/08/05/beer-microbiology-lactobacillus-ph-expeirment/

 

[boomtown25]

Thank you ffor the response. I have a PH meter, but have not yet brewed the sour I have wanted to for quite some time. Sooooo, tell me if this would be right:

Mash 60 minutes (around 50/50 pilsner/white wheat)
boil 15 minutes, cool under 100 degrees
pitch about 3-5 goodbelly shots, (I plan on pre-souring with lactic acid to about 4.5)
after about 18-36 hours, or when PH drops to 3.2, boil again at regular wort boil, adding any hops I desire
cool down to around 70 and pitch regular yeast strain
after around 7-10 days when fermentation has slowed, rack onto fruit in secondary for about 3 weeks
keg one week, enjoy
right???

 

[RPh_Guy]

Sounds good to me!

Couple things:
3.2 is a low target. Don't be surprised if you need to wait longer.

Try for a lager yeast pitch rate to maximize attenuation.

Edit: oh, and don't forget standard precautions for sanitizing the fruit!

Cheers

 

[boomtown25]

Sounds good to me!

Couple things:
3.2 is a low target. Don't be surprised if you need to wait longer.

Try for a lager yeast pitch rate to maximize attenuation.

Edit: oh, and don't forget standard precautions for sanitizing the fruit!

Cheers

Which Lager yeast would you suggest and at what temp? I do not have a temp controller and live in Mississippi, so essentially brewing under 68 degrees is not likely! lol

 

[EDF713]

Which Lager yeast would you suggest and at what temp? I do not have a temp controller and live in Mississippi, so essentially brewing under 68 degrees is not likely! lol

I believe RPH_guy meant lager Pitch rate, not lager yeast. Pitch more yeast.

Look at mrmalty.com’s or another yeast pitch calculator for lager pitching rates for your gravity.

 

[jaysquared2]

How do you all get your kettles firmly sealed to keep any badies out? Just attempted first kettle sour: pre-sour wort OG was 1.055, did the sanitized seran wrap layed on top of the wort and put a bunch of weight on top of the lid. Forgot to check gravity before boiling (silly me) and after boil gravity...was 1.022 so evidently something got in there and dropped that gravity severely. It tastes decent so I'm rolling with it, but now I'm going to basically be hopeful the yeast I pitched can at least drop it to around 1.006 and get me around 2.5% lol (since I'm sure the boil evaporated off all the alcohol the wild yeast produced). Oh, I used Blueberry Acai Goodbelly (was going to be a Blueberry/Raspberry Sour Ale) 8oz in 4.5 gallons wort. pH was 3.44 after 2 days.

 

[EDF713]

How do you all get your kettles firmly sealed to keep any badies out? Just attempted first kettle sour: pre-sour wort OG was 1.055, did the sanitized seran wrap layed on top of the wort and put a bunch of weight on top of the lid. Forgot to check gravity before boiling (silly me) and after boil gravity...was 1.022 so evidently something got in there and dropped that gravity severely. It tastes decent so I'm rolling with it, but now I'm going to basically be hopeful the yeast I pitched can at least drop it to around 1.006 and get me around 2.5% lol (since I'm sure the boil evaporated off all the alcohol the wild yeast produced). Oh, I used Blueberry Acai Goodbelly (was going to be a Blueberry/Raspberry Sour Ale) 8oz in 4.5 gallons wort. pH was 3.44 after 2 days.

I just kept the lid on mine, but it was inside in my study, not outside or in the kitchen. No Saran Wrap or weights, bungies, etc. Did you boil the wort before souring? I’ve read that plantarum will drop the gravity some, but 33 points in 2 days has got to be something else.

 

[jaysquared2]

Yep. Boiled for 20 mins before pitching the goodbelly @100F. Yeah, the plantarum definitely wouldn't cause that drop so it definitely got contaminated.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I just put plastic wrap around the kettle lid. Putting anything directly on top of the wort seems like asking for contamination in my opinion.

The contamination is a bummer but at least it should be drinkable. Hope your next one turns out better!

 

[Fly_Guy]

You mention using 2 bottles of cherry juice, we're they 16, 32, 48 or 64oz bottles?
I want to make a cherry lime milkshake ipa and am scouring the internet to figure out how to pack the most cherry flavor into it.
Thanks!

 

[Ulisses4677]

Kettle sour raspberry sorbet
5 gallon
6% abv
Soured with yakult probiotic drink.

80% rahr pilsner
20% white wheat
Fermented with lutra kviek
4 days
Cold crashed transferred to keg
Added Biofine the transferred to 6 gallon serving keg
Added potassium sorbete and campden tablet to stabilize they yeast for 24hrs
Added homemade raspberry purée and 8 lbs or raspberry sorbet thawed.
2 days laters I added Mexican vanilla tincture 10 vanilla beans.
If you ever had mortalis sours it’s
Pretty much on point or maybe better according to my friends.

 

[EDF713]

You mention using 2 bottles of cherry juice, we're they 16, 32, 48 or 64oz bottles?
I want to make a cherry lime milkshake ipa and am scouring the internet to figure out how to pack the most cherry flavor into it.
Thanks!

I mentioned quarts in the ingredients, so they were 32 oz bottles. I will say to my taste, the tart cherry juice ends up with much more cherry flavor than regular cherry, which just tastes sweet. But it's been almost 6 years, I haven't looked if you can even get that same stuff at Kroger.

 

[EDF713]

View attachment 820795
Kettle sour raspberry sorbet
5 gallon
6% abv
Soured with yakult probiotic drink.

80% rahr pilsner
20% white wheat
Fermented with lutra kviek
4 days
Cold crashed transferred to keg
Added Biofine the transferred to 6 gallon serving keg
Added potassium sorbete and campden tablet to stabilize they yeast for 24hrs
Added homemade raspberry purée and 8 lbs or raspberry sorbet thawed.
2 days laters I added Mexican vanilla tincture 10 vanilla beans.
If you ever had mortalis sours it’s
Pretty much on point or maybe better according to my friends.

Looks awesome!

 

[Ulisses4677]

Looks awesome!

Thanks.