Someone with Beersmith experience please give me a hand

[Biscuits]

Long story - short, I have been using an excel spreadsheet that I designed myself...mainly for kicks, but I think I messed up some calculations somewhere along the line and I want to verify whether I am crazy or not. I need someone with Beersmith experience to plug in my recipe and equipment info and see what numbers you get. I am focusing mainly on Estimated Pre-Boil Gravity and Estimated O.G.

Equipment info: I do 1.38 Gallon BIAB batches at the moment.

3 Gallon Aluminum kettle/mash
Boil-off rate: 1 Gal/hr
Kettle Loss: .08 Gal.
Loss to Fermenter: .12 Gal.

Boil Time: 60 min.
Mash Time: 60 min.

Recipe:

-------GRAIN--------
1.5 lbs. - 2-Row (Breiss)
.75 lbs. - Flaked Corn
.25 lbs. - Flaked Barley
.25 lbs. - Wheat Malt

-------HOPS--------
.38 Oz. - Cascade @ 60
.13 Oz. - Cascade @ 5
.38 Oz. - Citra @ 150 degree Whirlpool

Mash Temp: 152

-------PROCESS--------
Mash in with full volume of 2.5G for 60 mins.
No bag squeeze = @ 2.3G to kettle
Bring to boil add 60 min hops and start timer.
Follow hop schedule
Yadda-Yadda-Yadda.


If I missed anything that you need to plug it into Beersmith to get the most accurate numbers you can, just let me know and I will provide them.

As of right now, my pre-boil gravity came in at 1.032. Depending on where I plug the information in, I get varying efficiency numbers. Please help.

Thanks in advance.

 

[doug293cz]

To get 2.3 gal pre-boil from 2.5 gal of strike water with 2.75 lb of grain requires a grain absorption rate of 0.073 gal/lb (0.2 gal / 2.75 lb.) That seems low for a no-squeeze process. Have you verified that as your correct absorption rate?

Taking those numbers as is, I get a pre-boil gravity of 1.0376 (if you achieve 100% conversion efficiency.) In that case your lauter and mash efficiencies would both be 86%. To get a pre-boil gravity of 1.032, I have to drop the conversion efficiency to 84.3%, in which case mash efficiency is 73% and lauter efficiency is 87% (lauter efficiency goes up slightly because the wort is more dilute.)

PM me if you want to discuss details of mash/sparge simulation.

Brew on

 

[Biscuits]

To get 2.3 gal pre-boil from 2.5 gal of strike water with 2.75 lb of grain requires a grain absorption rate of 0.073 gal/lb (0.2 gal / 2.75 lb.) That seems low for a no-squeeze process. Have you verified that as your correct absorption rate?

Taking those numbers as is, I get a pre-boil gravity of 1.0376 (if you achieve 100% conversion efficiency.) In that case your lauter and mash efficiencies would both be 86%. To get a pre-boil gravity of 1.032, I have to drop the conversion efficiency to 84.3%, in which case mash efficiency is 73% and lauter efficiency is 87% (lauter efficiency goes up slightly because the wort is more dilute.)

PM me if you want to discuss details of mash/sparge simulation.

Brew on

Thank you for the info. To clearify, I mashed in with 2.5G and ended up with about 2.25G in the kettle. This is a new system to me so the all of the numbers at this point are guesstimates until I brew more with it and collect data. I am sure that on the stove top I am not boiing off 1Gal/hr.

Either way, this proves that my formula is off somehow...my calculations were showing @42% mash efficiency.

 

[Oginme]

If you are trying to confirm your spreadsheet based upon 'guestimates', then you really cannot count on any good feedback. I'd advise dong another brew and taking better measurements on your volumes and gravities throughout the process. Then you can really do a thorough analysis of your assumptions versus outcome.

 

[Biscuits]

If you are trying to confirm your spreadsheet based upon 'guestimates', then you really cannot count on any good feedback. I'd advise dong another brew and taking better measurements on your volumes and gravities throughout the process. Then you can really do a thorough analysis of your assumptions versus outcome.

I agree...guesstimates may have been poor choice of word. They are more like educated estimates. They may not be exact, but they are close enough.

 

[doug293cz]

I agree...guesstimates may have been poor choice of word. They are more like educated estimates. They may not be exact, but they are close enough.

Just remember, the efficiency (or any other) calculation can be no more accurate than the measurements that go into the calculation.

To really understand how your process is performing, you need to make the following measurements with as much accuracy as possible:

• Grain bill weight
• Strike water volume (everything prior to initial run off)
• SG of wort at end of mash, or first runnings SG
• Sparge process (fly, batch, none)
• Sparge water volume (for each batch sparge if more than one)
• Pre-boil volume
• Pre-boil SG
• Weight & type of any sugar added to the boil
• Post-boil volume
• Post-boil SG (OG)
• Volume into fermenter

All volumes should be corrected for thermal expansion to 68˚F, or the volume measurement temperature reported, so that corrections can be made. Hydrometer measurements should be taken with the wort temp within 20˚F of the hydrometer's calibration temperature, and then corrected for the temperature at which the measurement was made.

Mash Efficiency = Conversion Efficiency * Lauter Efficiency
Brewhouse Efficiency = Mash Efficiency * Fermenter Volume / Post-boil Volume

With the measurements listed above, all of the factors in the above equations can be calculated. Conversion efficiency should be greater than 95%. Lauter efficiency is a function of sparge process and grain weight to pre-boil volume ratio, and maximum achievable can be predicted (but not as accurately for fly sparge.) Once you know which efficiency factor is lower than what should be achievable, then you know what part of your process needs to be addressed.

Brew on

 

[Biscuits]

I can answer many of these with accuracy. I am not the most meticulous person in the world but as far as weight and measurements go, I can be only as anal as my equipment allows at this time.

• Grain bill weight - 2.75 lbs.
• Strike water volume (everything prior to initial run off) - 2.5 Gallon
• SG of wort at end of mash, or first runnings SG - 1.032
• Sparge process (fly, batch, none) - none
• Sparge water volume (for each batch sparge if more than one) - N/A
• Pre-boil volume - This I do not know with accuracy
• Pre-boil SG - Same as first runnings
• Weight & type of any sugar added to the boil - None
• Post-boil volume - @1.4 Gallons
• Post-boil SG (OG) - 1.047
• Volume into fermenter - 1.35 - 1.37 G

I can measure everything accurately except exactly how much is making it into my kettle...I need to make a stick with volume markings on it.

 

[doug293cz]

I can answer many of these with accuracy. I am not the most meticulous person in the world but as far as weight and measurements go, I can be only as anal as my equipment allows at this time.

I can measure everything accurately except exactly how much is making it into my kettle...I need to make a stick with volume markings on it.

We can back calculate your pre-boil volume if we assume your pre-boil SG, post-boil SG, and post-boil volumes are reasonably accurate.

Pre-Boil Volume * (Pre-Boil SG - 1) = Post-Boil Volume * (Post-Boil SG - 1), or
Pre-Boil Volume = Post-Boil Volume * (Post-Boil SG - 1) / (Pre-Boil SG -1)​

Plugging in your values gives a pre-boil volume of 2.056 gal. This puts your grain absorption at:

(2.5 gal - 2.056 gal) / 2.75 lb = 0.16 gal/lb​

That's on the high side, and will impact your lauter efficiency. Your boil-off is then:

2.056 gal - 1.4 gal = 0.656 gal​

Plugging these numbers into the mash/sparge simulator gives the following:

Conversion Efficiency = 84.3%
Lauter Efficiency = 77.6%
Mash Efficiency = 65.5%​

Not great, but it won't affect the quality of the beer.

Your brewhouse efficiency is then:

65.5% * 1.36 / 1.40 = 63.6%​

Brew on

 

[Biscuits]

We can back calculate your pre-boil volume if we assume your pre-boil SG, post-boil SG, and post-boil volumes are reasonably accurate.

Pre-Boil Volume * (Pre-Boil SG - 1) = Post-Boil Volume * (Post-Boil SG - 1), or
Pre-Boil Volume = Post-Boil Volume * (Post-Boil SG - 1) / (Pre-Boil SG -1)​

Plugging in your values gives a pre-boil volume of 2.056 gal. This puts your grain absorption at:

(2.5 gal - 2.056 gal) / 2.75 lb = 0.16 gal/lb​

That's on the high side, and will impact your lauter efficiency. Your boil-off is then:

2.056 gal - 1.4 gal = 0.656 gal​

Plugging these numbers into the mash/sparge simulator gives the following:

Conversion Efficiency = 84.3%
Lauter Efficiency = 77.6%
Mash Efficiency = 65.5%​

Not great, but it won't affect the quality of the beer.

Your brewhouse efficiency is then:

65.5% * 1.36 / 1.40 = 63.6%​

Brew on

You're like a mad man with numbers aren't you? :rockin::rockin:

I appreciate all the help and it was not for nothing. I now know what was wrong with my calculator...I was not taking into account that since I am doing full volume BIAB, that my mash efficiency would be more dilute than someone doing a traditional mash and sparge. I think I have it figured out but am gonna keep digging until I know for sure. Thanks again.