So....Cereal mash

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DannyD

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So I read the post on cereal mash, it says you first do the mash and then cook it to gelatinize the starch, would it not be better to first “gelatinize”/cook then allow to cool and then do sach-rest? (or should I go read it again?)

:drunk:
 

Native302

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Sorry to hijack your thread without any input, but this is making me think about a frosted flakes lager or california common...ummm I bet that'd be tasty. A buddy of mine did a popcorn lager that came out great. He threw the popcorn in the mash and boil.
 

Bobby_M

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I'm sure whatever thread you read was either wrong or you read it the wrong way. What kind of raw grains are you looking to use and what thread were you reading? It's probably best that when you have a question about a thread you've read that you go ahead and just post IN that thread for context and better still, use the quote feature to talk about a specific point made.
 

onthekeg

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When I cereal mash adjuncts, you will want to use 5-10% by weight of malt also. First do a sacc rest on the malt/adjunct mixture about 150-155 degrees for 15-20 minutes. Then go ahead and boil the whole mash for about 30 minutes.

Once completed, add the mash to your mash tun with the other malt.
 
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DannyD

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I'm sure whatever thread you read was either wrong or you read it the wrong way. What kind of raw grains are you looking to use and what thread were you reading? It's probably best that when you have a question about a thread you've read that you go ahead and just post IN that thread for context and better still, use the quote feature to talk about a specific point made.
Oo.....sorry it was not a post, its this......
http://www.ingermann.com/cerealmash.html
 

shafferpilot

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Not trying to start any debate (though I'm sure this will), but you don't NEED to do a cereal mash unless you are doing an extract batch or a partial mash.

The other way to do this is to simply gelatinize the cereal and put it in the mash. The barley in the main mash will convert all of the starch from the cereal so long as it is available to the enzymes in the main mash.... Which you do by gelatinizing them.

When I use rice (about 1/3 of my recipes) I just put PLENTY of water into a gallon pot and boil it. Then I pour the rice in and remove it from the heat (sound familiar to the normal rice making process?) Then I start my brew day. That means it is a couple hours before I get back to the rice. When I get back, it is ten times its normal size and as soon as I stir it, it practically disintegrates. That's when it's ready for conversion ;)

Now it's easy for me to use this method because I use steam infusion to heat the mash tun, so I don't have any calculations to do to get the mash up to the correct temp. I just heat until it's there. Same thing for HERMS or direct fire mash tuns. It would take some experimentation to get it right with classic cooler setups, but certainly possible.

SO, the point is, you don't need barley in a cereal mash unless that is the only opportunity to convert the starch in the cereal. If you are doing a full mash anyways, get the cereal completely mushy and put in in the mash... it'll convert just fine there :)
 
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DannyD

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When I cereal mash adjuncts, you will want to use 5-10% by weight of malt also. First do a sacc rest on the malt/adjunct mixture about 150-155 degrees for 15-20 minutes. Then go ahead and boil the whole mash for about 30 minutes.

Once completed, add the mash to your mash tun with the other malt.[/QUOTE]



aaahh here it is??.......the people in my head is confusing me again...:confused:
 

shafferpilot

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and frankly... that's the part that doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you boil any barley at all unless you WANT that decoction flavor? And you'll get next to no conversion with a 20 minute mash with cereal that hasn't even dissolved.... i just don't get it.
 

944play

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You want to boil the adjunct to gelatinize it, then add it to the main mash to bring the main mash to saccharification temp. The malts don't need to be boiled at all.

Typically, you'd bring the main mash from about 50-60ºC to ~70ºC by adding the boiling adjunct as an infusion.
 

Scooby_Brew

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Wait, wait. So I new about the necessity of boiling raw rice, but why would you need to boil flaked corn or flaked oats? I mean what happens with your breakfast corn flakes when you leave them unattended for 15 min? They turn into a gelatinized mush, so no boiling is needed. Am I missing something here?
 
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DannyD

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Wait, wait. So I new about the necessity of boiling raw rice, but why would you need to boil flaked corn or flaked oats? I mean what happens with your breakfast corn flakes when you leave them unattended for 15 min? They turn into a gelatinized mush, so no boiling is needed. Am I missing something here?
Jip... because the steam rolling gelatinized the grain, we are talking about just normal untreated grain, like rice and corn. the question then is, why do a "mini mash" then boil and then add to the normal mash anywhy?

aaahhhh....ones again the paradox of brewing stricks!!!:cross:
 

Bobby_M

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Raw unmalted, non-flaked grains can benefit from the gelatinizing process of a cereal mash. Really, it's limited to corn and rice. I have no idea why anyone would suggest a sacc rest on these grains prior to the boiling step. Complete waste of time as there are no accessible starches to work on yet.
 

onthekeg

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Raw unmalted, non-flaked grains can benefit from the gelatinizing process of a cereal mash. Really, it's limited to corn and rice. I have no idea why anyone would suggest a sacc rest on these grains prior to the boiling step. Complete waste of time as there are no accessible starches to work on yet.
The reason for the sacc rest on the adjunct cereal mash is that roughly 10% by weight of the cereal mixture would be malted grain. The malt will assist in the cereal mash by liquifaction of the whole mass. When you do a cereal mash, you can tell when conversion is complete as the sticky mash will become more fluid.
 
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DannyD

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The reason for the sacc rest on the adjunct cereal mash is that roughly 10% by weight of the cereal mixture would be malted grain. The malt will assist in the cereal mash by liquifaction of the whole mass. When you do a cereal mash, you can tell when conversion is complete as the sticky mash will become more fluid.
Ok I "get" this now.......I Boiled the corn(grits) for an hour and let it sit for an hour to cool, turned in to one massive lump!! almost had a stuck mash!!!:eek:
 

shafferpilot

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that's why i don't actually boil the cereal itself, just the water before adding the cereal... plus be sure to use PLENTY of water ;)
 
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