Smack Pack Question

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Ernst-Haeckel

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I was planning on doing a starter today, so I smacked my wyeast smack-pack. Only later did I realize I don't have any DME on hand to make the starter. I'm planning on brewing tomorrow, probably pitching tomorrow night. Will the smack-pack be okay for that long? I don't know if it can actually over-pressure, but I doubt it. I was thinking I would just put it in the fridge till tomorrow. Is this a good plan?

Thanks in advance!
 
Yeah it will be fine, I normally bust the smack pack the day before to get maximum propagation prior to pitching.
 
yeah it'll be fine and if your really worried about the pack bursting just open it up and pour the yeast in a sterilized container.
 
If you want to make a starter today, find the nearest Mexican grocery or even the nearest big box grocery store (like Meijer's) that has an "international foods" aisle and look for Malta Goya

large_316.jpg
MaltaGoya.jpg


Or Malta India

large_329.jpg


Quite a few people use it as a starter....It is pretty much just a lightly hopped, carbonated wort. Some people just stir it to release the co2, others bring to a boil and other's just bring it pasturizing temps. ANd then pitch the yeast.

There's a few threads on here about malta goya starters, both here and on other boards (google it)...and we even talked about it in the GAP (Grocery and produce challenge thread)

ANother option is to have him head to a bed bath and beyond or even a big box store that might carry mr beer refill packs and buy one of them...he can use the can of LME as his starter extract.
 
I'm sorry if I'm about to get blasted here, but here goes. You didn't say what your batch size is. If doing a 5 gallon batch, why not just pitch the smack-pack? I do 5 gal. brews and have never made a starter and have yet to get bad fermentation. Sometimes within 2 hours I get airlock action.
I just brew, chill, and add yeast. (always liquid yeast).
 
I'm sorry if I'm about to get blasted here, but here goes. You didn't say what your batch size is. If doing a 5 gallon batch, why not just pitch the smack-pack? I do 5 gal. brews and have never made a starter and have yet to get bad fermentation. Sometimes within 2 hours I get airlock action.
I just brew, chill, and add yeast. (always liquid yeast).

Agreed. I've made both a hefe and amber ale so far with no starter using Wyeast packs and both came out awesome. I think you'll be OK.


Rev.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I am doing a 5-gallon, so I am not worried, I just wanted to make sure the yeasties would be okay. I was just going to do a starter to show some friends how it's done.

To Revvy: I was literally at Bed Bath and Beyond about two hours ago, probably around the time you replied!!! Of course I was buying a coffee table for SWMBO, not even thinking about MacGyver fixes! Dangit!!!! I didn't even think about a Mr. Beer refill!! That would have been brilliant!
 
Just a quick question regarding the "Malta Goya" starter.....is it similar enough in nature to beer/wort for the yeast to make the transition?? Are the sucrose/frucrose/maltose levels similar enough for the yeast to make the correct enzymes? I think it's a great back-up plan by the way.
 
I'm sorry if I'm about to get blasted here, but here goes. You didn't say what your batch size is. If doing a 5 gallon batch, why not just pitch the smack-pack? I do 5 gal. brews and have never made a starter and have yet to get bad fermentation. Sometimes within 2 hours I get airlock action.
I just brew, chill, and add yeast. (always liquid yeast).

Because it's really a good idea to make a starter for any beer above 1.030 according to Mr Malty. Plus if you make starters, then you tend not to make "Is my yeast dead?" Threads....

It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast, smack pack, tube, or the jar of washed at the back of your fridge, for all beers above 1.020 OG...

The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..." :D

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.

I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Ales & Lagers

The general consensus on pitching rates is that you want to pitch around 1 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato. A little less for an ale, a little more for a lager. George Fix states about 1.5 million for a lager and 0.75 million for an ale in his book, An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. Other literature cites a slightly higher amount. I'm going with Fix's numbers and that is what the pitching calculator uses.
The Math

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

* There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

* A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.
Pitching From Tubes, Packs, or Dry Yeast

Both White Labs and Wyeast make fantastic products and you can't go wrong with either one. There are differences between their strains and each brand has pluses and minuses yet neither is better than the other across the board. Use the brand your local homebrew shop carries, if you need a way to decide.

A White Labs tube has between 70 and 120 billion cells of 100% viable yeast, depending on the yeast strain. Some cells are much larger than others and there are more or less per ml based on size. (The information on the White Labs web site stating 30 to 50 billion cells is out of date.) We can just assume there are around 100 billion very healthy yeast. You would need 2 tubes if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts.

A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. The smaller packs are around 15-18 billion cells. You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. For the small packs, you'd need eleven of them!


But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.

Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.

Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast.

The only reason NOT to make a starter is simple laziness....
 
Just a quick question regarding the "Malta Goya" starter.....is it similar enough in nature to beer/wort for the yeast to make the transition?? Are the sucrose/frucrose/maltose levels similar enough for the yeast to make the correct enzymes? I think it's a great back-up plan by the way.

It IS malt......it's lightly hopped unfermented beer (wort). That's why it's so popular for using in in starters.
 
If you want to make a starter today, find the nearest Mexican grocery or even the nearest big box grocery store (like Meijer's) that has an "international foods" aisle and look for Malta Goya

large_316.jpg
MaltaGoya.jpg


Or Malta India

large_329.jpg


Quite a few people use it as a starter....It is pretty much just a lightly hopped, carbonated wort. Some people just stir it to release the co2, others bring to a boil and other's just bring it pasturizing temps. ANd then pitch the yeast.

There's a few threads on here about malta goya starters, both here and on other boards (google it)...and we even talked about it in the GAP (Grocery and produce challenge thread)

ANother option is to have him head to a bed bath and beyond or even a big box store that might carry mr beer refill packs and buy one of them...he can use the can of LME as his starter extract.

Rev I love that you post that! I work for Goya. I'm going to have to try that, thanks!:rockin::mug:
 
It IS malt......it's lightly hopped unfermented beer (wort). That's why it's so popular for using in in starters.

Not a trap...just a question; why not choose this over DME for a starter ingredient on a regular basis? Preservatives?... If it's just as good, it could potentially be a lot cheaper.
 
Rev I love that you post that! I work for Goya. I'm going to have to try that, thanks!:rockin::mug:

I know I'm getting all sorts of credit for this, but I didn't invent it..in fact the first time someone posted about it I didn't believe it, then googled about it and found out how popular it was.

I'm hispanic, Goya is probably one of my favorite food brands. What do you do for them? You should let them know how popular Malta Goya is for homebrewers.

I still plan on making a beer with it someday.
 
I'm a sales manager for them in the NY metro area (NY/CT).

I'm sure they have no idea but would find it interesting to know.

I use it sometimes to marinade pork!:ban:

Thanks Revy we appreciate your patron!:mug:
 
I'm a sales manager for them in the NY metro area (NY/CT).

I'm sure they have no idea but would find it interesting to know.

I use it sometimes to marinade pork!:ban:

Thanks Revy we appreciate your patron!:mug:

Dude, this is the bomb!!!

41HQ9XB21QL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-2,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg


I injected a venison shoulder with it, and slow roasted it in a turkey bag with veggies, and made venison fajitas with it..Awesome!!!
 
OK....it's starting to seem a little bit like "conflict of interest" here. Until further notice, I'd just stick with DME as your main starter ingredient.
 
Dude, this is the bomb!!!

41HQ9XB21QL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-2,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg


I injected a venison shoulder with it, and slow roasted it in a turkey bag with veggies, and made venison fajitas with it..Awesome!!!

I have never tried it with venison gotta get to it!

Sorry to go :off: folks:D

I'll be honest with you the next time I make a starter (next week) gonna do the malta thing. seams way easier and cheeper than DME.
 
Not a trap...just a question; why not choose this over DME for a starter ingredient on a regular basis? Preservatives?... If it's just as good, it could potentially be a lot cheaper.

Because sometimes folks don't have access to DME for one...like when their LHBS is closed and they need to make a starter.

Also, have you ever priced it? It's pretty cheap, cheaper than dme. Especially if you're an all grain brewer, and don't keep any extract around...

Some folks like it because they feel they don't need to boil it.

Like I said, it's hugely popular in the homebrewing community, just because you've never heard of it, it's all over the web...Try doing like I did, and do some research maybe...It's nice to learn about new things.....and other ways of doing things.....Maybe you won't be so quick to discount it.

http://tinyurl.com/4fflnwa

*shrug*

You too may find that you need to make a starter at 3 am on a sunday....when the only thing open is a meijer's and it has it in the international foods aisle.
 
Just the repetitious photos of "Goya" products throughout this thread.....seems a bit lop-sided towards a particular product.

THis isn't even your thread, and it seems that the Op, and others were quite interested in hearing about Malta Goya and other things as starter alternatives...AND MALTA INDIA (totally different company) was equally represented on here. ;)

Besides. I didn't know we had product placement police on homebrewtalk.:confused:
 
Revvy...not trying to start a war. I'm sure you can understand my questions....relax

I'm perfectly relaxed...just wondering where you're coming from by your comments, NOT your questions, which I've provided you plenty of info to answer them with, several links to info and stuff....

I just don't understand your comments about "bit lop-sided towards a particular product." or "Until further notice, I'd just stick with DME as your main starter ingredient. " Who's gonna be in charge of the posting the notice that it's ok to use it? You? I kinda already did. ;)

You seem touchy about something, and I was just wondering why...Are you a DME distributor or somehting and feel we're crossing into your turf by using something other than DME for your starters? Sorry but folks use other things sometimes....I never have, I'm just passing on info that's on here already. That's what we do on here, pass on info, and sometimes that spurs "off topic" conversations...especially about food, since so many of us are foodies as well as beer geeks, so sometimes we tangent off into food as well.

*shrug*
 
Revy's right about being a food geek as well. My love for cooking, I sort of consider a bridge for brewing (for me).

I'm trying to learn the basic ales before I go nuts and really start to experiment.
 
I'm perfectly relaxed...just wondering where you're coming from by your comments, NOT you're questions, which I've provided you plenty of info to answer it, several links to info and stuff....

I just don't understand your comments about "bit lop-sided towards a particular product." or "Until further notice, I'd just stick with DME as your main starter ingredient. "

You seem touchy about something, and I was just wondering why...Are you a DME distributor or somehting and feel we're crossing into your turf by using something other than DME for your starters? Sorry but folks use other things sometimes....I never have, I'm just passing on info that's on here already. That's what we do on here, pass on info, and sometimes that spurs "off topic" conversations...especially about food, since so many of us are foodies as well as beer geeks, so sometimes we tangent off into food as well.

*shrug*

errrrrrrrr......OK. Damn; you're on to me. I'm a secret agent DME distributor who has something against soda-pop as a yeast starter and I'm also against off-topic foodie tangent discussions and passing on info. WOW...how did you figure all that out?? I'm guessing that psychedelics were involved.
 
I'm guessing that psychedelics were involved.

Nope...unless you count these as mind altering, which they were; ;)

urbock.jpg


Schloss Eggenberg Urbock 23° is one of the strongest beers in the world. We keep the Urbock 23° in our Schloss cellars for 9 months until it is dark gold and strongly matured. Urbock 23° has received the highest acknowledgments and honours at international exhibitions and world evaluations. It is brewed exclusively from natural raw ingredients after the purity requirement of 1516.

And then, a 2009 Bourbon County Stout
bourbon-county-stout-21454183.jpg


Oops....more product placements...sorry. :D
 
Touche....
Seriously, I'm not trying to rattle any cages. I have no motives; just questions. If that stuff is a good starter alternative, than that's great, and I'm all for it. If my questions offend,....well, I'll still ask them anyways.
 
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