Smack Pack of expired Wyeast, how long between smack and starter?

[TrojanAnteater]

I'm going to be picking up an expired pack of Wyeast 3711 (french saison), guy said it was about 3 months beyond expiration (only shop within 50 miles of me that has one). I'm going to make a starter, so after smacking it (around 2pm Wednesday), how long should I wait until I make the starter? Would later that night around 9 be ok, or should I wait until Thursday? I'm brewing Saturday morning and I work 9am-9pm on Th/Fri, so it would sorta suck to have to wait until Thursday night around 11pm to make my starter.
*Hoping that giving it only 7-8 hours after smack is fine*

I think I read John Palmer recommending leaving your smack pack in a warm room for a whole day....

Eventually it will be blended with WLP565 before pitching into wort on Saturday.

Advice? Thanks!

 

[jtratcliff]

Instructions say 3 hours or more for a freh pack. And that it may take longer for an older pack. But that fully swollen isn't necessary. I'd say half day to a day and it if you get some swelling, go ahead and make a starter.

 

[oldstyle69]

if you making a starter, it dosnt really matter. its gonna sit for a bit anyway before pitching.

 

[d3track]

From what I understand, your best bet is just dump everything into the starter - maybe give it a touch longer and step it up?

 

[Jupapabear]

I made a starter today with a pack that expired 2 months ago. I made my wort in my flask and slapped the pack, then dropped the flask into an ice bath and left for work. Came by during lunch (3-4 hours later) and it was swelled like it wanted to pop. So I pitched then. Every thing looks great to me. Hope that helps.

 

[TrojanAnteater]

Thanks guys looks like I'll be making my starter Wednseday

 

[Hello]

You may want to start it early and step up. I have some very expired smack packs that I intend to try and step up. These are well over 6 months expired.

I made a starter today with a pack that expired 2 months ago. I made my wort in my flask and slapped the pack dropped the flask into an ice bath and left for work. Came by during lunch (3-4 hours later) and it was swelled like it water to pop. Every thing looks great to me. Hope that helps.

I'd love to see more of that stir plate.

 

[Jupapabear]

Haha, let me get some pics when I'm done setting up for brewday.

 

[jalmeida]

I smack it and wait for the pack to fully inflate personally. It usually takes an hour or so. May take longer if it is cold when you smack it. And if it is old you may need to step it up to ensure good viable yeast count.


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[TrojanAnteater]

smacked it about 4 hours ago and it hasn't really shown much of a sign of inflating... It was cold when smacked but warmed up pretty quickly in my car along with putting it in the garage which is >80F

 

[kh54s10]

There is really no need to smack the pack at all. The inner pack is just nutrient to energize the yeast before use. I often don't smack Wyeast packs, but always make starters.

Make your starter wort, open the pack and pour the yeast in, fish out the nutrient and add it also.

With expired yeast you may need to make a stepped starter to get enough yeast.

 

[d3track]

smacked it about 4 hours ago and it hasn't really shown much of a sign of inflating... It was cold when smacked but warmed up pretty quickly in my car along with putting it in the garage which is >80F

If it inflated at all, you should have some live yeast.
Un scientifically I would say make a small lower gravity starter (maybe 500ml at 1.025-1.030) and let it go for 36-48 hours, then step up to 1000ml at the normal 1.036-1.040 for 36-48 hours again.

 

[jalmeida]

There is really no need to smack the pack at all. The inner pack is just nutrient to energize the yeast before use. I often don't smack Wyeast packs, but always make starters.

Make your starter wort, open the pack and pour the yeast in, fish out the nutrient and add it also.

With expired yeast you may need to make a stepped starter to get enough yeast.

I smack them to see if they are viable. If it doesn't inflate don't waste the time making starter wort.


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[kh54s10]

I smack them to see if they are viable. If it doesn't inflate don't waste the time making starter wort.


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If it doesn't inflate that does not necessarily mean the yeast is totally dead.

Then again I have never used outdated smack packs.

 

[khawk95]

There is really no need to smack the pack at all. The inner pack is just nutrient to energize the yeast before use. I often don't smack Wyeast packs, but always make starters.

Make your starter wort, open the pack and pour the yeast in, fish out the nutrient and add it also.

With expired yeast you may need to make a stepped starter to get enough yeast.

What he said. Agreed. Step up.


Roed Haus Brewery

 

[TrojanAnteater]

Gonna make a starter for the hell of it,... but I'm brewing Saturday morning, and work 12 hours on Thurs/Fri, so no time for stepping anything. At least I have a vial of 565 as well, so hopefully I get enough out of the starter to augment what 1 vial of 565 will do. It's only a little over 3 gallon batch anyway.

 

[jalmeida]

If it doesn't inflate that does not necessarily mean the yeast is totally dead.



Then again I have never used outdated smack packs.

That may be true, but I am not going to waste a brew day with that yeast. You can. But I won't.


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[TrojanAnteater]

The yeast packet inflated a tad over 6-7 hours.... when I opened it up I realized only 1 half of the nutrient pack had opened. The other half was still sealed. Ugh. The store owner told me he brewed with one of those same expired packs last week and had no trouble starting it. We shall see.