Single kettle brewing??? Is there such a thing?

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Hi guys, as you know i work for March pumps.....I'm not into beer brewing but with my engineering and mechanical background i'm always thinking on how to improove things. And it got me to thinking.... So my question to all you pro's is this:
Is it possible to brew your beer in one kettle? I know i see you guys have two or three kettles. The way i see a single kettle brew happening is with something that can take your mash or hops out....and i envision a press type filter like a "french press" coffee type thing. You would have a fine mesh screen both top and bottom and press down to filter out the liquid while keeping the solids inbetween the screens...then just pull it all out. Then you can just insert a copper coil chiller loop into the kettle and use the pumps to circulate cold ice water out of an ingloo cooler or something.

Am i onto something? Or thinking of something thats been done before or is it just stupid because I'm not familiar with the whole brewing process?

-Walter

 

[IrregularPulse]

Stove Top Brew In a Bag could be done with the full boil volume in a large enough pot. You'd have low efficiency, but it'd be a single pot AG system.
But where is the fun in less equipment?

 

[Randar]

Yeah, people do this in a "brew in a bag". Essentially they put all the grain in a bag and then drag it out of the pot. They also do something similar with a small bag for hops additions.

I would be interested in seeing a drawing of what you are envisioning, but I think you will find cost and complexity of what you are describing might outweigh the previously described simple methods?

 

[Ace_Club]

There has been a lot of discussion about this topic. You can either search "brew in a bag" or check out this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/single-vessel-all-electric-ns-nc-brewery-158608/

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

There has been a lot of discussion about this topic. You can either search "brew in a bag" or check out this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/single-vessel-all-electric-ns-nc-brewery-158608/

Think i'll have to look farther into the whole process of brewing before i can think of "other" things to change! I am completely green when it comes to what you guys do to brew beer...

-Walter

 

[Ace_Club]

That's what we're here for! To learn from each other!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[BendBrewer]

If something like this did catch on, wouldn't it hurt the hell out of your employer?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

If something like this did catch on, wouldn't it hurt the hell out of your employer?

Nope...these pumps are not designed for any one application. The 809's are used in everything from transfering used veggy oils to radiant heat for homes...to hot water recirculation so you have hot water at the faucet farthest from the water heater....The beer guys like them cause of the high temps they can take And we also make these in 12 and 24v DC version for solar applications that are very popular as well. You should see how many we sell yearly to southern states like FL, TX, AZ, CA etc

-Walter

 

[Ace_Club]

If something like this did catch on, wouldn't it hurt the hell out of your employer?

I would think that most single-vessel type setups would have a pump to recirc the wort during the mash period in some type of RIMS setup. Unless the vessel is heavily insulated (in which case you may run into issues with flammability if you are using flame instead of electric heat), you'd need the recirc to ensure a constant temperature or that you don't scorch the wort.

 

[Hermit]

Nope...these pumps are not designed for any one application. The 809's are used in everything from transfering used veggy oils to radiant heat for homes...to hot water recirculation so you have hot water at the faucet farthest from the water heater....The beer guys like them cause of the high temps they can take And we also make these in 12 and 24v DC version for solar applications that are very popular as well. You should see how many we sell yearly to southern states like FL, TX, AZ, CA etc

-Walter

The DC aspect is interesting because of the possibility of speed control....

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

The DC aspect is interesting because of the possibility of speed control....

If you were looking for a speed controll then i would suggest searching for something that can do PWM(Pulse width modulation) I have had a few people call and ask about useing dimmer switches to turn down the voltage...and that can work to a point. But these motors dont really like going lower then 103v and it doesnt change the output enough to make most people happy.

-Walter

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

There is such a thing as a mash press for use on a MUCH larger scale. the mash is augered to the press, thus clearing the kettle, the wort is pressed out and pumped back to that kettle for the boil.

Have yet to see this implemented on a Hombrewers scale. BIAB is the closest approximation.

 

[Hermit]

If you were looking for a speed controll then i would suggest searching for something that can do PWM(Pulse width modulation) I have had a few people call and ask about useing dimmer switches to turn down the voltage...and that can work to a point. But these motors dont really like going lower then 103v and it doesnt change the output enough to make most people happy.

-Walter

I have PWM available but you mentioned 12 volt motors. The marriage of these two things together would be ideal. I can get 10 amps at 12 volts from my battery charger. Well, actually a little higher obviously.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I have PWM available but you mentioned 12 volt motors. The marriage of these two things together would be ideal. I can get 10 amps at 12 volts from my battery charger. Well, actually a little higher obviously.

PWM would be for AC applications like the standard 809's everyone buys. DC motors are easy to vary the speed on...a simple dimmer switch form home depot is enough to do that with!

-Walter

 

[Hermit]

PWM would be for AC applications like the standard 809's everyone buys. DC motors are easy to vary the speed on...a simple dimmer switch form home depot is enough to do that with!

-Walter

Modern dimmers are kind of a variation on PWM and chops the sine wave. Not sure those would work on DC. They aren't resistive anymore.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/dimmer-switch2.htm
Point is that having the DC motor available for homebrew purposes would be nice since you say they are available anyhow. PWM will give you FULL POWER for short bursts which helps too. Lowering the voltage will lower the power output along with the speed. At least that is my understanding from my book learning that has gone unused for way too long.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Check this out:

http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/...Braumeister/XTCsid/tn1ics2qf99v0b3ho26s9jpem2

It was I believe, at least in part, some of the motivation for scubasteve's single vessel rig.

Quality German engineering and innovation!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Modern dimmers are kind of a variation on PWM and chops the sine wave. Not sure those would work on DC. They aren't resistive anymore.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/dimmer-switch2.htm
Point is that having the DC motor available for homebrew purposes would be nice since you say they are available anyhow. PWM will give you FULL POWER for short bursts which helps too. Lowering the voltage will lower the power output along with the speed. At least that is my understanding from my book learning that has gone unused for way too long.

Thats interesting! I just bought a dimmer switch for a hot wire foam cutting rig i want to build.....i just may have to bring this to work and check out what it can do on the 809!

 

[Hermit]

Thats interesting! I just bought a dimmer switch for a hot wire foam cutting rig i want to build.....i just may have to bring this to work and check out what it can do on the 809!

Guys on my lathe list are using variable frequency drives if they want to change motor speed on AC. Actually it is a side benefit of providing 3 phase from single phase. A lot of old Logan lathes came with 3 phase motors. You will effectively be cutting the RMS voltage to an AC motor with a dimmer switch and that will shorten its life. So goes the theory as I remember it anyhow.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Guys on my lathe list are using variable frequency drives if they want to change motor speed on AC. Actually it is a side benefit of providing 3 phase from single phase. A lot of old Logan lathes came with 3 phase motors. You will effectively be cutting the RMS voltage to an AC motor with a dimmer switch and that will shorten its life. So goes the theory as I remember it anyhow.

Most VFD's i have seen only work on 3 phase...and you wont be finding a small 1/100 or 1/25 hp motor in 3 phase
We sell a VFD that take 1 phase and converts it to 3 phase....and depending on what HP the motor has you can have speed control on the fly. But these are more for overload protection.

VFD

 

[iijakii]

Stove Top Brew In a Bag could be done with the full boil volume in a large enough pot. You'd have low efficiency, but it'd be a single pot AG system.
But where is the fun in less equipment?

Just wanting to clear some misconceptions here.

BIAB is a fantastic method that can get great efficiencies. I, and many others on biabrewer.info consistently get in the 80s.

 

[HAHN]

2 companies come to mind right off "Grainfather" and "Braumeister" make single vessel brewers.