Simple setup?

[Bvbellomo]

I am not a new all grain brewer, I have been doing it for 8 years, but I never had a good setup.

I would heat strike water in an aluminum stock pot over a propane burner, mash in a cooler with no false bottom, run through a strainer into a bucket. Then repeat, batch sparging.

Buckets get dumped into the stock pot, which is boiled with hops, chilled with a chiller, then strained again into the buckets and yeast is added.

Very hard, lots of work, involves holding 5+ gallons of very hot water in 1 hand and a strainer in the other. Lots of problems with extracted tannins, low efficency or spilled wort - but made a few nice batches of beer other times.


I recently decided to upgrade and make my life easier. So I bought a Bayou classic - steel with a false bottom and "lab grade" thermometer. Not sure this was a good purchase. It loses more heat than the cooler as a mash tun, and the thermometer is worthless for mash temperature. I thought I'd be able to heat it slowly while mashing to better control the temperature. That didn't work so well - the bottom overheats without the top heating up - even constantly stirring does not heat evenly.

I had a stuck mash (put the hop screen on - I guess that was a mistake) but this could happen normally, and then I had to dump the mash into buckets to get under the false bottom to unclog it. I sparged with cold water, since I had no way to heat water in the same kettle as my mash (I could have lifted the whole thing off and used my aluminum stock pot, but decided this was too much work). Lots learned, but so far, not much of an upgrade.

Worst case, I can go back to the cooler for a mash tun, and then at least I have a nice kettle. But I see lots of youtube videos with 3 tier setups, and wonder if I could do something like this. I brew on my patio, so anything needs to either be waterproof or moveable into storage, in addition to being fireproof. It could be as simple as cinder blocks under the first kettle, with a second kettle lower down, but then I need buy another burner and manually switch the gas lines - too much work/risk to lift both kettles and move burners which could be hot enough to burn me even through an oven mitt.

The youtube videos and plans I've seen are very elaborate, expensive, complicated, and not mobile. Does anyone have any pointers for simple and cheap ways to make my life easier?

BTW - I don't want to 'brew in a bag' - part of the appeal of all grain brewing is lowering costs over extract. You lose this cost advantage if you lose efficiency.

 

[jack13]

I don't BIAB, but my understanding is that you do not lose efficiency if you crush finer (which you can do to your heart's content since you can't get a stuck sparge with BIAB).

But assuming you don't want to go that route...seems to me from what you describe that a false bottom for your cooler mash tun would make things significantly easier and would be a very minimal change/cost.

 

[Bvbellomo]

I don't BIAB, but my understanding is that you do not lose efficiency if you crush finer (which you can do to your heart's content since you can't get a stuck sparge with BIAB).

But assuming you don't want to go that route...seems to me from what you describe that a false bottom for your cooler mash tun would make things significantly easier and would be a very minimal change/cost.

A false bottom would be easier than what I was doing before, and can go that direction, but I bought the Bayou and don't want to give up on it just yet. Why make a kettle with a false bottom unless someone can use it?

 

[IKR]

But assuming you don't want to go that route...seems to me from what you describe that a false bottom for your cooler mash tun would make things significantly easier and would be a very minimal change/cost.[/QUOTE]
That would work nicely as well as adding stainless steel braided hose to the cooler. Both options would simplify your current operation for minimal cost and complexity.
Best of luck

 

[Transamguy77]

I did BIAB when I first started AG brewing and had efficacy in the high 80’s and with my 3 tier set up I get almost as much but usually a few points lower.

You could use a bag in your cooler then you don’t need a false bottom and you won’t have to strain it going into your BK.

I built a 3 tier set up out of angle iron and welded it myself, I have seen builds using strut that is bolt together. You will probably need at least 1 more burner but you could just buy the burner itself for like 10 bucks. I have 3 burners and built a gas manifold to feed them. When I built mine I wanted to use gravity and not move anything other than some hoses on brew day to keep things simple.

I have seen some pretty cool wood stands if you can’t make one out of metal. I’ve also seen some interesting ideas with shelving and ladders to make a collapsible brew stand.

I would recommend looking through the “show us your brew sculpture” thread and get some ideas, someone out there has made something that will work even as a base plan and can be adjusted to what you need, that’s what I did and I am very pleased with how mine works.

 

[Bvbellomo]

I did BIAB when I first started AG brewing and had efficacy in the high 80’s and with my 3 tier set up I get almost as much but usually a few points lower.

I suppose BIB is an option, but it is a complete change in direction from everything I've been trying to do. I am surprised you got into the high 80's. Were you batch sparging?

I built a 3 tier set up out of angle iron and welded it myself, I have seen builds using strut that is bolt together. You will probably need at least 1 more burner but you could just buy the burner itself for like 10 bucks. I have 3 burners and built a gas manifold to feed them. When I built mine I wanted to use gravity and not move anything other than some hoses on brew day to keep things simple.

I have seen some pretty cool wood stands if you can’t make one out of metal. I’ve also seen some interesting ideas with shelving and ladders to make a collapsible brew stand.

I would recommend looking through the “show us your brew sculpture” thread and get some ideas, someone out there has made something that will work even as a base plan and can be adjusted to what you need, that’s what I did and I am very pleased with how mine works.

Where do you get a burner for $10? I haven't seen any below $50.

The problem with a wood or metal stand is I am currently carrying all my brew equipment up the basement steps, through the kitchen and living room, out to my patio. I am not sure how I could build something I could carry easily that is fireproof and holds 10+ gallon kettles. I suppose I could just throw a tarp over the whole thing, but still think it would rust or rot.

Will look at the sculpture thread, thanks.

 

[Transamguy77]

I suppose BIB is an option, but it is a complete change in direction from everything I've been trying to do. I am surprised you got into the high 80's. Were you batch sparging?

I crush my own grains with a Corona mill and I used to “dunk sparge” in my old 5 gallon extract pot with about 2 gallons in it.


Where do you get a burner for $10? I haven't seen any below $50.

And I built a manifold like this.

The problem with a wood or metal stand is I am currently carrying all my brew equipment up the basement steps, through the kitchen and living room, out to my patio. I am not sure how I could build something I could carry easily that is fireproof and holds 10+ gallon kettles. I suppose I could just throw a tarp over the whole thing, but still think it would rust or rot.

Will look at the sculpture thread, thanks.

This is not mine but you could build something similar and buy a whole burner and set it on top, not too big and could be transported up and down steps safely.

 

[Bvbellomo]

I think I could make a 2 kettle system work and use the Bayou as intended. The Bayou gets heated to strike temp, then the grain goes in. Then I switch burners and heat the 2nd kettle for sparge water. I'd need 3 buckets of 5 gallons each to do a 10 gallon batch. 2 buckets get filled with wort, while the other one transfers sparge water from the 2nd kettle to the bayou, and then gets the last of the wort. All the buckets are then dumped into the 2nd kettle, which gets boiled with hops and chilled, and transferred into 2 of the buckets with yeast to ferment.

I still need a 2nd burner, and probably a way to raise it, but could use a similar propane burner to what I have now, and raise both with cinder blocks which could stay outside. I still do some physical labor, but it is 5 gallon buckets with 2 hands, not 10 gallon kettles with 1 hand.

The biggest problem to a 1 kettle system is it can't sparge and heat sparge water at the same time. I could use a bag to remove the grain before heating the sparge water, but this is more work and I need another large container to hold the bag of grain while I heat the sparge water. A 2-kettle system that uses 1 burner is possible if I lift the kettle full of mash onto cinder blocks to use the same burner.

I agree 3 kettles is easier to run, as it can be gravity fed or pump fed with no manual labor. But it is more equipment to buy, take out and put away - and a more elaborate stand.

 

[Bvbellomo]

Transamguy77 - interesting design, but I may as well go with a GasOne Portable Propane Single with Adjustable Legs for $60 on Amazon. It is lighter, and I don't see building a manifold and the design you just showed for $45. I can always use cinder blocks if I upgrade to a 3-tier system later.

 

[casualbrewer]

My set up is ultimate simple. It is Biab but I stay about 86% brewhouse efficiency. I mash, boil, and ferment in the same stainless kettle. Hard to beat a single vessel.

 

[Transamguy77]

Transamguy77 - interesting design, but I may as well go with a GasOne Portable Propane Single with Adjustable Legs for $60 on Amazon. It is lighter, and I don't see building a manifold and the design you just showed for $45. I can always use cinder blocks if I upgrade to a 3-tier system later.

That sounds like a great idea! Decisions, decisions, it’s always hard trying to figure out the best plan with so many variables. Keep us posted on how it works for you.

 

[mongoose33]

A kettle has to lose heat faster than a cooler. When I did BIAB I wrapped that kettle up with a quilt and it held heat very well.

With BIAB, and the finer crush, you're probably done with conversion by 20 minutes, 30 minutes at the outside. At that point, maintaining temp isn't all that important. I went with hour mashes regardless to ensure I drew out all the flavor I could from the malt, and to get the maximum conversion I could.

The only issue I had w/ BIAB was I have a Hellfire burner and once I heated up the strike water there was residual heat in the burner that would give that heat up to the water, increasing it by a few degrees. I had to aim for a strike temp a few degrees less than I expected to make up for that, but it was just an adjustment.

 

[RM-MN]

Water for sparging does not need to be heated. It rinses out the sugars just fine as the hot wet grains bring the water temperature up pretty well. There, I just saved you the trouble of setting up a second burner and saved you the cost.

BIAB requires no 3 tier system, nor does it require any pumps. A simple stand above the kettle and a pulley to raise the bag does just fine. As with any mash, the quality of the crush determines the mash efficiency and with BIAB you can crush very fine.

 

[Redtab78]

Have you considered using a pump? This would alleviate the lifting of heavy pots full of hot water, add a false bottom or bazooka tube to your mash tun, and use the bayoo classic as a boil kettle.

Pump hot water into the mash tun for mash in, then pump from mash tun to kettle.....then switch it back to hot liquor to mash tun and so forth until you have the proper pre boil amount

 

[Bvbellomo]

Water for sparging does not need to be heated. It rinses out the sugars just fine as the hot wet grains bring the water temperature up pretty well. There, I just saved you the trouble of setting up a second burner and saved you the cost.

BIAB requires no 3 tier system, nor does it require any pumps. A simple stand above the kettle and a pulley to raise the bag does just fine. As with any mash, the quality of the crush determines the mash efficiency and with BIAB you can crush very fine.

I brewed today for the first time with cold water sparging. At worst, I'd assume it is still much more efficient than just not sparging. Opinions on the Internet seem divided - cold water is more likely to result in a stuck mash and less efficient, or it doesn't matter. Since the majority of homebrews seem to be heating their sparge water, I assume there has to be a good reason.

BIAB and a 3 tier system are 2 completely different ideas various people have suggested. It is one or the other, no one suggested both together.

 

[Bvbellomo]

Have you considered using a pump? This would alleviate the lifting of heavy pots full of hot water, add a false bottom or bazooka tube to your mash tun, and use the bayoo classic as a boil kettle.

Pump hot water into the mash tun for mash in, then pump from mash tun to kettle.....then switch it back to hot liquor to mash tun and so forth until you have the proper pre boil amount

I want a simple and cheap setup, carrying power cords and a pump is worse than carrying buckets, and it is one more thing that can break on brew day. But it does weigh less than a stand and might be worth considering.

 

[Bvbellomo]

A kettle has to lose heat faster than a cooler. When I did BIAB I wrapped that kettle up with a quilt and it held heat very well.

With BIAB, and the finer crush, you're probably done with conversion by 20 minutes, 30 minutes at the outside. At that point, maintaining temp isn't all that important. I went with hour mashes regardless to ensure I drew out all the flavor I could from the malt, and to get the maximum conversion I could.

The only issue I had w/ BIAB was I have a Hellfire burner and once I heated up the strike water there was residual heat in the burner that would give that heat up to the water, increasing it by a few degrees. I had to aim for a strike temp a few degrees less than I expected to make up for that, but it was just an adjustment.

I considered a blanket. One more thing to carry, and probably needs to go through the wash after each brew, but should solve the temperature drop issue. I am not certain this is a problem, especially with a larger batch. A 10+ gallon mash in a pot might even hold heat longer than a 5 gallon mash in a cooler. I might also try more water for a loser mash and try heating it again.

 

[mongoose33]

I considered a blanket. One more thing to carry, and probably needs to go through the wash after each brew, but should solve the temperature drop issue. I am not certain this is a problem, especially with a larger batch. A 10+ gallon mash in a pot might even hold heat longer than a 5 gallon mash in a cooler. I might also try more water for a loser mash and try heating it again.

IMO, you're way overthinking this. Below is a pic of my setup. The "quilt" is a print that formerly was used as a painting dropcloth, so no comments from the peanut gallery about SWMBO's reaction to my using quality bedwear in my brewing operation.

I suppose I must have washed that at some point, but what I do when I'm done is fold it up and store it away in my brew stuff until next time. It never gets beer on it, there's a lid on the kettle.

And yeah, a 10-gallon batch will cool a little slower than a 5-gallon batch, but you still want to wrap it to maintain temp for at least that 30 minutes.

 

[golfandbrew]

I have brewed on a 3 tier system and also a similar set up to your current one. I would say hands down your current system is less less work and less hazardous than the the three tier set ups. Add the high temp magnetic drive pump and use cam locks or similar quick disconnects to make using the pump easier and to switch from your mash to tun to kettle. Use a hop spider or bags to reduce mess in your kettle to keep gunk out of your pump. A good whirlpool will help too. The pump and whatever cord you need should fit in your kettle or mash tun so they shouldn't add more trips up and down your stairs. Hope you find something that works for you.

 

[z-bob]

One small change to your process that I think will help: Instead of pouring thru a strainer into the buckets, line the buckets with a paint strainer bag and pour directly into that. Then lift out the bag and let it drain. I tried something like that recently to remove the hops and most of the cold break gunk going into the primary and it worked well. (before, I added the hops in a sock to keep them out of the wort, and I dumped all the cold break into the bucket with the wort. That worked too but I don't think I got very good hop utilization)

 

[pnewgard]

I do BIAB and it makes fantastic beer and super simple. Make sure to double crush your grains. I use a 3600 watt induction burner with a bayou pot and basket. It's simple and perfect.

 

[pnewgard]

I do BIAB and it makes fantastic beer and super simple. Make sure to double crush your grains. I use a 3600 watt induction burner with a bayou pot and basket. It's simple and perfect.

Pic

 

[estricklin]

Have you considered using a pump? This would alleviate the lifting of heavy pots full of hot water, add a false bottom or bazooka tube to your mash tun, and use the bayoo classic as a boil kettle.

Pump hot water into the mash tun for mash in, then pump from mash tun to kettle.....then switch it back to hot liquor to mash tun and so forth until you have the proper pre boil amount

This is the route I would go. I would set the extra kettle and cooler on the ground, using them as a HLT and mash tun, no need for brewing stand. Then buy a cheap 12 volt pump and some hose and hose barb fittings. Minimal cost, maximum reward.

 

[Bobby_M]

Electric BIAB and you dont have to schlep anything out of the basement.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

[QUOTE="
BTW - I don't want to 'brew in a bag' - part of the appeal of all grain brewing is lowering costs over extract. You lose this cost advantage if you lose efficiency.[/QUOTE]

You will gain efficiency and reduce mash times with BIAB

 

[Veets]

You're doing 10 gallon batches for sure? If not and you'd consider 5 gallon batches, then it doesn't get more simple than the Robobrew system or similar (Grainfather, Mash & Boil). And as Bobby M mentioned, with electric you can keep it in the basement or use it outside.
The false bottom on the Robobrew is fantastic - it keeps the hop and break residue out of your fermenter, so no straining required.
It's got a built-in pump and temperature control. I've retired my thermometer. The only liquid I lift is a couple of gallons of sparge water and then my fermenter (keg) after it's all filled with chilled wort and yeast.
I heat enough water for the mash and sparge, then pump the sparge water into a separate bucket, which I kinda insulate during the mash. That bucket of water gets poured over the grains later on. I'm around six batches in, and haven't had a stuck sparge yet.
Belgian Tripel this weekend came out at 78% efficiency (although some of that was from 1.5lb of sugar).
The only downside for me is that it takes a while to heat anything. I've adjusted for that by filling the water up the night before and setting a delayed start. I wake up to hot water. I've started with some more lodo techniques, so lately I'm waking up to boiling water, pumping off the sparge water for later, then chilling the remainder of strike water down to around mash temps, and lowering the grain pipe full of grains down into the water. After setting the recirculation on the pump just right, I'm back upstairs to boil more water for coffee.

 

[Christophrawr]

I strongly recommend you reconsider BIAB. I use a similar induction system like pnewgard. Perfectly safe and perfectly simple with fantastic results. You need to weigh how important some efficiency is to how simple you want your process. I'm at 73% efficiency and happy, I dont think a higher efficiency will make a better beer.

 

[jdanderson1449]

It really doesn't get any easier than BIAB. I've medaled with just as many of my BIAB beers as I have my traditional beers and I get the same efficiency across all my methods.

At the end of the day, you have to decide if your sanity is worth efficiency. You said you've been brewing for 8 years with your current method and have only made ok beer sometimes. Isn't it worth your sanity to try BIAB and lower the amount of work that you're doing and actually enjoy the process?

So what if you lose a point or two of efficiency? Spend $2 on an extra pound of grain and get in with your life. I've been brewing in a bag for 5 years. If you want pointers on it, feel free to PM me and most importantly, do like Charlie, RDWHAHB.