should i be worried about beer oxidation at this condition !!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

Majed41

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Hi . all my beer has been bottled . i don't have counter pressure filler

should i be worried about beer oxidation if i consume my homebrew beer within 2 month and no more then that ?
 

Arimanari

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
22
Reaction score
15
Location
Greece
I've never had an oxidation issue with bottles even after 4-5 months, but it all depends on the style of beer, hops, carbonation levels. I had 2 bottles of my Saison last night, which I bottled in April, it's still as good as it gets but I wouldn't recommend you let wits and hefes sit for longer than 6 weeks.
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
Key to not having to care much about oxidation is an air tight fermenter, bottle conditioning and minimum head space in the bottle (about 5mm).

If you leave out one of these, your beer will be oxidised. If you can taste it, is written on another piece of paper. I certainly do but I'm a bit sensitive to these types of flavours.
 

marc1

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
1,687
Reaction score
1,277
Location
OH
Hi . all my beer has been bottled . i don't have counter pressure filler

should i be worried about beer oxidation if i consume my homebrew beer within 2 month and no more then that ?

You mention a counter pressure filler - are you bottling already carbonated beer from a keg, or are you priming in the bottle to carbonate during bottle conditioning?
 

wsmith1625

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
754
Reaction score
639
Location
Manchester, NJ
All bottling is going to suffer some level of oxygen exposure, but careful packaging can help minimize the level. If you're using a bottling bucket, carefully transfer from the fermenter filling the bottling bucket from the bottom up without splashing. I found that using a fermenter with a spigot helped a lot with this because my auto siphon always had bubbles indicating that air was getting in the line. You could also bottle directly from the fermenter which eliminates oxygen exposure. With either method, use a proper spring tipped bottling wand on your faucet to fill the bottles from the bottom up and all the way to the top. Once the bottling wand is removed, you'll have the perfect head space in the bottles. Last, you can use oxygen absorbing bottle caps to seal the deal.
 

hotbeer

Opinionated Newb
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
1,631
Reaction score
1,183
Best you just drink one of your bottles and see for yourself if you have an oxidation problem. Reading threads here and getting random advice from others that might have totally different circumstances than you will probably worry you to death.

Or at maybe at least worry you to find solace in a bottle of beer!
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
All bottling is going to suffer some level of oxygen exposure, but careful packaging can help minimize the level. If you're using a bottling bucket, carefully transfer from the fermenter filling the bottling bucket from the bottom up without splashing. I found that using a fermenter with a spigot helped a lot with this because my auto siphon always had bubbles indicating that air was getting in the line. You could also bottle directly from the fermenter which eliminates oxygen exposure. With either method, use a proper spring tipped bottling wand on your faucet to fill the bottles from the bottom up and all the way to the top. Once the bottling wand is removed, you'll have the perfect head space in the bottles. Last, you can use oxygen absorbing bottle caps to seal the deal.
Sorry for being a bit bland, but this is almost completely false information.

Oxygen introduction into the liquid during bottling time is not a real issue as the yeast gets some sugar to digest in the bottle when bottle carbing (doesn't mean that trying to avoid oxygen exposure at this stage is a bad idea). During this short active phase, the yeast almost instantly absorbs and uses up all the available oxygen in the liquid, so that oxygen that has been introduced doesn't have enough time to do much damage to your beer.

The real issue is the oxygen in the head space. The head space oxygen diffuses very slowly into the liquid. As long as the yeast ist active, again, no problem. But unfortunately, there will be oxygen left in the headspace once the sugar is all metabolized and the yeast is gone dormant again. This leftover oxygen then continues to diffuse from the gas in the headspace into the beer and now it's doing damage to the beer.

So keeping the headspace as small as technically possible without risking cracked bottles, is of upmost importance. Once you remove the bottling wand, unfortunately, there is way too much headspace. So you have to manually force the bottling wand to fill the bottle more by pressing the little button at the bottom to the side of the bottle neck till there is 5-10mm headspace left.
 

wsmith1625

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
754
Reaction score
639
Location
Manchester, NJ
Sorry for being a bit bland, but this is almost completely false information.

Oxygen introduction into the liquid during bottling time is not a real issue as the yeast gets some sugar to digest in the bottle when bottle carbing (doesn't mean that trying to avoid oxygen exposure at this stage is a bad idea). During this short active phase, the yeast almost instantly absorbs and uses up all the available oxygen in the liquid, so that oxygen that has been introduced doesn't have enough time to do much damage to your beer.

The real issue is the oxygen in the head space. The head space oxygen diffuses very slowly into the liquid. As long as the yeast ist active, again, no problem. But unfortunately, there will be oxygen left in the headspace once the sugar is all metabolized and the yeast is gone dormant again. This leftover oxygen then continues to diffuse from the gas in the headspace into the beer and now it's doing damage to the beer.

So keeping the headspace as small as technically possible without risking cracked bottles, is of upmost importance. Once you remove the bottling wand, unfortunately, there is way too much headspace. So you have to manually force the boiling wand to fill the bottle more by pressing the little button at the bottom to the side of the bottle neck till there is 5-10mm headspace left.
Your addition that the yeast uses up the oxygen as it consumes the sugar and carbonates the beer is completely accurate. I agree with that and did not speak on post bottling conditions. I do not agree that what I contributed is false. I think it is wise to minimize oxygen exposure during the bottling process. Nothing I said is false information.
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
Your addition that the yeast uses up the oxygen as it consumes the sugar and carbonates the beer is completely accurate. I agree with that and did not speak on post bottling conditions. I do not agree that what I contributed is false. I think it is wise to minimize oxygen exposure during the bottling process. Nothing I said is false information.
Not 100% false, but your post is focusing on aspects which are almost irrelevant to oxidation when bottling, instead of focusing on the real issues and the reasoning behind it. Sorry, might be the language barrier here doing it's thing.
 

whattabrau

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
17
Reaction score
16
The real issue is the oxygen in the head space. The head space oxygen diffuses very slowly into the liquid. As long as the yeast ist active, again, no problem. But unfortunately, there will be oxygen left in the headspace once the sugar is all metabolized and the yeast is gone dormant again. This leftover oxygen then continues to diffuse from the gas in the headspace into the beer and now it's doing damage to the beer.
Shaking the bottle will dissolve and distribute that oxygen rapidly. Running a shaken-vs-stirred experiment to test hypothesis should be easy enough, and I'd actually do it if I had some suitable pale beers in the foreseaable pipeline. (I'm on purpose ignoring how common knowledge tells you not to shake the bottle, because common knowledge more often than not seems to be wrong)

Flushing the headspace with CO2 before capping does have a huge effect. Minimizing the headspace no doubt does the same with less equipment, just harder to make a controlled pour from a very full bottle.
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
Shaking the bottle will dissolve and distribute that oxygen rapidly. Running a shaken-vs-stirred experiment to test hypothesis should be easy enough, and I'd actually do it if I had some suitable pale beers in the foreseaable pipeline. (I'm on purpose ignoring how common knowledge tells you not to shake the bottle, because common knowledge more often than not seems to be wrong)

Flushing the headspace with CO2 before capping does have a huge effect. Minimizing the headspace no doubt does the same with less equipment, just harder to make a controlled pour from a very full bottle.
I also thought about shaking it. I routinely did it to speed up carbonation by forcing yeast back into suspension. Downside is, yeast is back in suspension and even if it carbs up quicker (which it really does), one still has to wait till the yeast has settled again. Depending on the yeast strain, this can take a while.

I think it would be necessary to continuously shake it, to really get most of the oxygen into solution before the sugar is gone and that is a bit unpractical.
 

AlexKay

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,296
Reaction score
3,912
Location
South Bend
It’s partly that active yeast will consume oxygen, and partly that oxidation products (aldehydes, etc.) get enzymatically deoxygenated.

I haven’t tried this, but is there enough carbonation after fermentation to fob and cap on foam?
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
It’s partly that active yeast will consume oxygen, and partly that oxidation products (aldehydes, etc.) get enzymatically deoxygenated.

I haven’t tried this, but is there enough carbonation after fermentation to fob and cap on foam?
No. Somebody tried that here... There's one big headspace thread with all different variants tried and tested.
 
OP
OP
M

Majed41

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
You mention a counter pressure filler - are you bottling already carbonated beer from a keg, or are you priming in the bottle to carbonate during bottle conditioning?
bottle conditioning . i just found this great video suggestion to use Plastic/Pet bottle and squeeze the bottle to force most of oxygen out . sounds like a great idea

 

hotbeer

Opinionated Newb
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
1,631
Reaction score
1,183
You aren't answering any of the questions put to you. And you seem to be pouncing on things that you think might help you just because they sound "neat-o" in a 60's sort of way.
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
bottle conditioning . i just found this great video suggestion to use Plastic/Pet bottle and squeeze the bottle to force most of oxygen out . sounds like a great idea


This has proven to work. The downside is that pet itself let's some oxygen through so after a few months in the bottle, the beer starts to oxidate. From my experience, it's good for about two to three months in there.
 

CascadesBrewer

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
2,385
Reaction score
2,275
Location
VA, USA
A good thread with lots of info on the topic:

More and more I tend to think that oxidation of bottled beers is one of the major causes of that "stale homebrew taste" in beer. A small amount of oxidation can be fatal for NEIPA style beers, and can have a significant impact on even mildly hoppy beers. I am not positive how much impact it has on most other styles. I am not sure if I have seen sensory data gathered on a style like a Pilsner (a style where oxidation could likely mute the typical grain characters).

Personally, I am wondering if the Saisons and Dubbels that I often brew and bottle would benefit from better practices to reduce oxygen in the bottle. The beers taste great after months in the bottle, but I need to do some trails to see if they could taste better.

should i be worried about beer oxidation if i consume my homebrew beer within 2 month and no more then that ?
I have seen enough evidence to believe that storing bottled beer cold once it is fully carbonated, will help to reduce impacts of oxidation. I have a fridge where I keep my kegged beers, but my bottled beers are typically stored at around 68F. Though if your batch is not an IPA, it might not matter much.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
4,278
Reaction score
3,273
Location
_
Warning, anecdotal story involving personal taste preferences :cool:

I have seen enough evidence to believe that storing bottled beer cold once it is fully carbonated, will help to reduce impacts of oxidation. I have a fridge where I keep my kegged beers, but my bottled beers are typically stored at around 68F. Though if your batch is not an IPA, it might not matter much.

In my travels through the upper mid-west, I had time to stop by Beer Dabbler's (link) "Dabbler Depot" (link) in St Paul MN (USA).

tl:dr? "To maximize freshness, all beer sold at Dabbler Depot will be kept cool until time of sale."

Challenge accepted: I bought a six pack of a craft IPA that I enjoy that had a "bottled on" date that was 5 months in the past. Typically, I enjoy this IPA when the "bottled on" date is 2 or 3 months in the past and I will not buy it if it's beyond that date.

Challenge rewarded: the IPA (bottled 5 months in the past and kept cold in the store) tasted like the IPA had been bottled 2 or 3 months ago.

When bottling, it may be that "refrigeration is your friend".
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,584
Reaction score
5,267
Location
Bremen
A good thread with lots of info on the topic:

More and more I tend to think that oxidation of bottled beers is one of the major causes of that "stale homebrew taste" in beer. A small amount of oxidation can be fatal for NEIPA style beers, and can have a significant impact on even mildly hoppy beers. I am not positive how much impact it has on most other styles. I am not sure if I have seen sensory data gathered on a style like a Pilsner (a style where oxidation could likely mute the typical grain characters).

Personally, I am wondering if the Saisons and Dubbels that I often brew and bottle would benefit from better practices to reduce oxygen in the bottle. The beers taste great after months in the bottle, but I need to do some trails to see if they could taste better.


I have seen enough evidence to believe that storing bottled beer cold once it is fully carbonated, will help to reduce impacts of oxidation. I have a fridge where I keep my kegged beers, but my bottled beers are typically stored at around 68F. Though if your batch is not an IPA, it might not matter much.
It depends. If you want to age your beer a bit, which almost all British beers should be, at least for a month or two, then cold storage inhibits also all the other chemical reactions that happen beside oxidation. IE it slows down the aging process. For American ipas and apas it might be a good idea, for other beers probably not.
 
Last edited:
Top