Shorted heating element?

[Tim K]

My receptacle end of my cord overheated and I replaced it and brewed with it. This morning as soon as I switched on the element it tripped the GFCI breaker. I checked continuity between the ground lug and the line lugs and it's Infinite, line lugs to the kettle also shows infinite. Ground lug to kettle is 0 ohms. I can see where the epoxy melted so I'm guessing moisture has made it inside of the element and is enough to trip the breaker but not enough to show up on my multimeter. I've ordered a new element, but just wanted some input on what else to check. Thanks all

 

[Tim K]

Ok, it's not the element, I installed a new LED indicator light for the 240 element by attaching one wire to the pulsed leg from the SSR and the other to ground at the receptacle because it's a 110v light. I guess it's enough to trip the breaker. So back to my 24v indicator light.

 

[sicktght311]

Glad you found that its something much easier to replace!

I brewed a beer yesterday and made it through the whole brew session, knocked out to the fermenter, and then went to turn on the HLT element to heat up water for cleaning, and the panel popped the GFCI breaker. I moved some plugs around and found that it only popped the GFCI whenever the HLT element was plugged in, even if it was plugged into the boil kettle outlet. So its definitely either the cable, or a bad element. Good opportunity for me to upgrade my element I suppose!

 

[Tim K]

I had just upgraded to a dsrp320 and installed a couple of contactors after the SSR's so I had a little thinking to do. I have a new element coming anyway, cheap receptacle on my cord would work loose and barely make contact with the element lugs and overheated. I think I finally have it dialed in now.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, it's not the element, I installed a new LED indicator light for the 240 element by attaching one wire to the pulsed leg from the SSR and the other to ground at the receptacle because it's a 110v light. I guess it's enough to trip the breaker. So back to my 24v indicator light.

The proper way to wire an "element firing" indicator light is in parallel with the element - between the two hot legs going to the element. Wiring between the SSR switched hot line and neutral will not work, as the element has a small resistance relative to the light, so the light will be on when the SSR is off due to current flowing from the unswitched hot thru the element and then the light.

As you found out, wiring between hot and ground trips the GFCI. That's because the nominal trip point for GFCIs is only 5 mA (0.005 A.) And it wouldn't work correctly even if it didn't trip the GFCI, for the same reason that hot to neutral doesn't work.

Brew on

 

[sicktght311]

The proper way to wire an "element firing" indicator light is in parallel with the element - between the two hot legs going to the element. Wiring between the SSR switched hot line and neutral will not work, as the element has a small resistance relative to the light, so the light will be on when the SSR is off due to current flowing from the unswitched hot thru the element and then the light.

As you found out, wiring between hot and ground trips the GFCI. That's because the nominal trip point for GFCIs is only 5 mA (0.005 A.) And it wouldn't work correctly even if it didn't trip the GFCI, for the same reason that hot to neutral doesn't work.

Brew on

Entirely true. But also not true. Yes the ssr bleeds voltage so the light is on when the element is off BUT that’s only when there’s no elements plugged in. Once you plug the element into the outlet, it acts as a path for that bleed energy and the light stays off. This is how my panel is wired and I noticed the same thing, thinking I wired something wrong, until someone pointed out. The element needs to be plugged in

 

[doug293cz]

Entirely true. But also not true. Yes the ssr bleeds voltage so the light is on when the element is off BUT that’s only when there’s no elements plugged in. Once you plug the element into the outlet, it acts as a path for that bleed energy and the light stays off. This is how my panel is wired and I noticed the same thing, thinking I wired something wrong, until someone pointed out. The element needs to be plugged in

The "element firing" lamp being on when the SSR is off, and no element is connected, is due to the SSR leaking current, not voltage. This is a different effect than what happens if you wire the element firing lamp between hot (either one) and neutral (or ground.) Wired hot to neutral, the lamp will be on, whether the SSR is off or on, when the element is plugged in. My previous post was only about why you have to wire hot to hot, and not hot to neutral (or ground), and had nothing to do with the "anomalous" lighting of a correctly wired lamp when the element is not connected.

For completeness, the hot to hot wiring applies to split phase 240V systems only, not to 120V or single phase (1 hot + neutral) 230V systems.

Brew on

 

[sicktght311]

ahh I definitely misread. My bad! Correct as usual. I should have looked that it was Doug posting. He knows all!

 

[Tim K]

The indicator light that I have is rated for 110v that's why I tried it on the pulsed leg to ground. I wired it to both hot legs and it's working. At least I know that my GFCI breaker is working. Thanks for the help.

 

[Bobby_M]

And the main point I think is get a 240v indicator.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Ok, it's not the element, I installed a new LED indicator light for the 240 element by attaching one wire to the pulsed leg from the SSR and the other to ground at the receptacle because it's a 110v light. I guess it's enough to trip the breaker. So back to my 24v indicator light.

That connection Hot to Gnd is what the GFCI is looking for. When it sees current going to ground, it assumes it is going to ground through you. And it shuts down the circuit.

It is amazing to me how sensitive GFCI breaker are. And that is a good thing, it does not take much current to do you hatm.

 

[Bobby_M]

In effect, the gfci isn't aware of current coming in over the ground wire. It just cant find it on the hots and/or neutral. If there where a neutral it could be used for a 120v device with no trip.

 

[Homebrew Harry]

It is amazing to me how sensitive GFCI breaker are. And that is a good thing, it does not take much current to do you harm.

I thought that also until I got lit up like christmas in my own kitchen. It didn't trip the outlet either. I have an external tester that has a gfci "tripper". It tested ok and popped with the tester. I replaced it anyway.

 

[sibelman]

Right. GFCI and circuit breakers protect us electric brewers to some considerable extent against lethal shocks and fires. But they can fail, and they don't eliminate all electrical risks even when operating properly.