Session APA?

[MBM30075]

I've been on a very hoppy, high flavor kick for a while. I've done barleywines, IIPAs, Belgian Grand Cru, etc...

Now, I'd like to try going the other way with a really smooth, mild session ale. I'm not sure what to call it, but it's kind of a mellowed-out, or ratcheted-down version of an APA.

Here's my recipe, calculations per Beer Smith:

Ingredients
*******************
6.00 lb. 2-Row US Pale Malt
1.00 lb. 20L Crystal Malt
0.50 oz. Cascade (5.5% @ 60 min)
0.50 oz. Cascade (5.5% @ 5 min)
1 package US-05
*******************

Calculations (full 5 gal. boil, 70% eff.)
*******************
1.035 OG
1.010 FG (estimated)
5.3 SRM
13.5 IBU
3.25% ABV
*******************

According to BrewPal (iPhone app), the 2 closest styles to this are English Bitter and Mild Brown Ale. I'm not going for either of these.

What am I going for?

Well, my dad loves (LOVES!) Miller Lite.

I'm trying to break him into the wonders of the rest of the beer world, but so far everything I've given him has been "too strong".

So, I'm trying to make a nice, mild beer, but with more distinctive APA flavoring, just LESS of the flavors. Make sense?
Almost like what you'd get if you watered down a standard APA, maybe? But without it tasting watered-down.

I couldn't find anyone else who had done this. How does this recipe look? Any suggestions to change it to make it better?

Thanks!

 

[MBM30075]

Plus, this should be quick grain-to-glass, right?

 

[Edcculus]

I'd cut down on the crystal if you want a nice refreshing beer that can be drunk in large quantities (yea, thats drinkability!). The latest Zymurgy has some good info on Milds and session beers too.

You could always do a SMaSH (Single Malt and Single Hop) beer. Use 2 row, and choose your favorite hop. Target the same gravity and less than 20 IBUs.

 

[Jaysus]

Looks just like an American Bitter to me.

 

[MBM30075]

@Jaysus,

Yeah, that's kind of the point. It meets the Standard Bitter qualifications, but I don't want the British flavor profile.

@Edcculus,

So maybe more like:

Ingredients:
**********************
7.00 lb. 2 Row US Pale Malt
1.00 oz. Cascade (6.3%) @ 60 mins
US-05 Yeast

Calculations:
**********************
1.036 OG
1.010 FG
3.0 SRM
25.7 IBU
3.27% ABV

How does that work?

Thanks!

 

[Edcculus]

Looks like a pretty good session SMaSH! Using cascades and American yeast will keep out the "british mild" taste. Try to pitch and ferment below 70F for a cleaner taste.

 

[MBM30075]

If I don't have a dedicated beer refrigerator, would a swamp bath keep it at or below 70F? My ambient temperature is normally right about 70 in that closet.

Thanks!

 

[NCBeernut]

A swamp bath would easily keep you below 70, especially if you used the t-shirt and fan trick. I am actually about to make an extremely similar beer. You should definitely keep the crystal or it will have almost zero body. I'm calling mine an American Pale Mild.

 

[MBM30075]

But then it's not a SMaSH!

Getting a fan on the swamp bath would prove problematic. How effective is it without a fan?

To give you an idea of my setting, listen to this:

Over a month ago, I started a 1 gallon test homemade rum with an OG of 1.200+. After a day or two, I put it in a swamp bath to try to keep fermentation temps down so as to limit fusel alcohol production. After watching it slowly bubble for a month, I took an SG reading the other night. It was only down to 1.150! After that reading I put it on my kitchen counter to warm up. Fermentation has clearly sped up since. I used a champagne yeast, so I'm thinking it was just the low temps that slowed it down.

Thoughts?

 

[MBM30075]

Also, lack of body might be just the thing my dad's taste buds are currently seeking.

I guess I have to ease him into good beer really, really slowly!

I wonder if he'll look down on this beer when I tell him that it's single-hopped, not triple-hopped like Miller Lite .

 

[chefchris]

If you're going to make a SMaSH I would suggest Marris Otter or Vienna over 2 Row. I've done a Vienna, MO and Munich SMaSH. All were great.

 

[Edcculus]

I suggested staying with regular 2 row since he is looking for a nice APA-like session beer with not much "British" character. If you aren't set on a SMaSH, it might be a good idea to add a pound of Vienna in place of the original crystal though.

 

[MBM30075]

I think I'll go with just a 2-row SMaSH to see what happens. Seems like this beer could be done fermenting and cleared in 10 days. Then, crash cool, 3-5 days at serving pressure and I'm good to go, right? Any flaws in my logic?

Thanks!

 

[kanzimonson]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if you're drinking this 7 days from brew day... sounds like it could be tasty and drinkable but one word of advice: I've tried so hard to get my Miller Lite drinking friends turned on to homebrew and it just ain't gonna happen. Homebrewers like beer with flavor, and "those people" don't.

I suggest you pump that sucker with some crystal malt and make the beer YOU want to drink, rather than something that your dad may not like anyways, and something you're just lukewarm on.

Oh, and don't forget to ridicule him for drinking Miller Lite. I recommend sipping your beer and say in the most whiney, sarcastic voice possible, "This beer has too much FLAVOR in it!!!!" Then throw a handful of cornmeal in his beer... you know, whatever it takes to alienate yourself! :cross:

 

[chefchris]

Quick turn around definately. My Munich/Northern Brewer SMaSH was 4% and 26 IBUs. Week and a half primary, cold crashed for a couple of days and kegged. Drinking it a couple nights later.

I would at least suggest reading other peoples comments on a 2 Row SMaSH. I haven't run across anyone who was pleased with it. Vienna is very light and will give you a little more malty flavor, which, with an APA is definately to style.

Like I said, do a search for 2 Row SMaSHes and see what they had to say.

 

[HangLoose]

I have never had a hard core BMC drinker like anything that didn't have at least a little bit of corn or rice in it. If you really want him to like it I'd try Vienna with some flaked corn or some minute rice (I'd keep the rice to under a pound or it will turn your beer to water with 2-row). If your careful it will be thin and light and easy to drink and it still has to be better tasting then any BMC...

 

[NCBeernut]

I have never had a hard core BMC drinker like anything that didn't have at least a little bit of corn or rice in it.

My girlfriend's Dad has been a Bud Light drinker for years. I also have a die-hard Coors Light drinker friend. They both loved my hefeweizen and Special Bitter. I think a nice easy drinking beer done right has the potential to be enjoyed by anyone. It can have body and flavor and doesn't need corn or rice.

 

[HangLoose]

I'm not saying that they HAVE to have corn or rice for them to like it I'm saying that its a familiar flavor that they seem to like. Of course anybody can like anything. Also just because there is corn or rice in there doesn't mean the beer will have no body.

 

[Bob]

I would at least suggest reading other peoples comments on a 2 Row SMaSH. I haven't run across anyone who was pleased with it. Vienna is very light and will give you a little more malty flavor, which, with an APA is definately to style.

Like I said, do a search for 2 Row SMaSHes and see what they had to say.

Dunno about all that. I liked mine rather a lot. US 2-row, Goldings. Yum.

Weird too that brewers who are successful with CAP, Cream Ale, and the like don't seem to have any problems with enjoying their beer. In fact, IIRC some of the same brewers have problems with their pale SMaSH beers that enjoy their lighter "craft" brews. Which is dumb.

There's nothing wrong with 2-row SMaSH. If there was, it's with the brewer's expectations. If you're using a pale grain, little hops and neutral yeast only, guess what? It's going to be a light beer with little body or flavor. Expectation is key.

When I hear someone complain about their 2-row SMaSH being rather bland, it's all I can do to refrain from shouting, "Of course it is, dummy! It doesn't have any of the specialty ingredients that provide obvious flavors!"

We homebrewers are so into extreme flavor combinations - or overwhelming single flavors - that our palates too often are ill-equipped to deal with pale beers. That's why everyone sneers at pale lager beers, pretending they have no flavor: They can't (or don't want to) pick out delicate flavors.

That's why I insist any brewer in whose development I have any say brews light beers. If you can brew them well, you can brew anything well, because in pale beers there's nowhere to hide flaws in your skills.

/rant

Cheers!

Bob

Edit: Body/flavor and corn/rice are NOT mutually exclusive. The majority of British cask ales use either (or sugar). Countless full-bodied ales and lagers use a proportion of adjunct grain in the grist. Even when proportions exceed 1/3 of the grist, there is still ample flavor and body. Not as much as the IIPA or even APA, sure. But that's a function of expectation, not ingredients.

 

[Pappers_]

I always like to have a cream, blonde or kolsch on hand. I enjoy lighter beers and I always have something that most beer drinkers will enjoy.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I would suggest two row plus 4-6 oz of Crystal 120. It'll be light, and drinkable, and the higher lovibond crystal will add a touch of body and flavor without being too sweet. In fact the higher L will give you just a hint of malty backbone. I would also throw in a 0.5 oz 10 min addition of whatever hop you go with just for a bit of flavor. Sounds like fun. Good luck, and let us know what you end up with.

 

[MBM30075]

Well, as with any plan, it's not set until you start brewing, right?

I went into my LHBS and talked to the owner (he's actually a brewer). He suggested I used Pilsner to help target more towards the Miller Lite taste. He let me eat some of the grains and I think I'll be pleased with how it comes out.

So, final recipe is:


Ingredients:
***********************
7.75 lb. German Pilsner Malt
1.00 oz. Cascade (7.2%) Whole Hops - First Wort Hop
1.00 packet SafAle US-05 dry yeast

Beer Smith calculations:
***********************
OG: 1.037
FG: 1.011
Color: 3.0 SRM
IBU: 26.6

Actual OG was 1.038 for right at 5.5 gallons. I noticed that as this beer was pouring out of my boiler and into my fermenter, THIS BEER IS PALE!!!!!

I expected it, but it's barely, barely not colorless!

I re-hydrated the yeast well, and pitched last night about 6. This morning (12 hours later), there's a ton of activity. Smell from blowoff is minimal to none.

I'm looking forward to this. I just kegged a Cream Ale that is light and refreshing. At first, I wasn't too keen on it, but after Bob's rant, I'm trying to enjoy it for what it is. It's not an IPA, so it shouldn't taste like one. I'm going to have the same mindset with this beer.

Anyway, here's hoping I can finally ease my dad into drinking my beer (and maybe brewing with me!)

By the way, is it possible for the BJCP to create a new category for this kind of beer? It's way too light (color), light (OG) and light (IBU) to be even an APA, and its closest "cousins" are English Ales. Should they create a kind of "extra" category for SMaSH beers? Maybe like:

10D: American Extra Pale Ale
OG: 1.030 - 1.045
FG: 1.005 - 1.012
IBU: 12 - 30
SRM: 2 - 5
ABV: 3.2 - 4.8

Basically, for IPA and IIPA, I can hit all of the numbers except SRM. For the Extra Pale Ale, the color, gravity and IBU are all lower. So, maybe for IPA and IIPA, the style can just go lower on the SRM scale, but the session Extra Pale Ale SMaSH seems to need its own category.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[MBM30075]

8 days after pitching, I opened up my primary bucket to get a sample. I was going to put it in a soda bottle and carbonate with my carbonator cap.

Problem is, there was still a HUGE amount of foam on top!!!

Now, the foam looked normal (tannish with big bubbles), so I'm not worried about infection, but what the heck? This thing was blowing pretty big just 12 hours later, why isn't it done from 1.038 @ 8 days?

Anybody have a suggestion? US-05 on 1.038 Pilsner malt seems like it should be a fast ferment, especially with activity after 12 hours. ?????????

Thanks!

 

[MBM30075]

By the by, Bob, I did end up enjoying that Cream Ale. I also had a fairly extreme IIPA kegged, and found that I couldn't do much more than sip that beer, so I did a concoction of 1/3 IIPA and 2/3 Cream Ale that came out delicious!!!

Now, I'm looking forward to some more delicate flavors in this beer!

 

[Bob]

Cool. Cream Ale rocketh mightily.

Worry not about the foam. Take a gravity this evening, then take another on Wednesday. If they're the same, it's done. You are then clear to rack, should you desire to do so. Me, I'd rack this, then fine it in the second vessel before racking star-bright beer into the final container.

Sometimes krauesen will remain present. Sometimes it'll fall. Depends on the yeast, depends on certain characteristics of the wort (grist and mash technique) and the ferment.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[MVKTR2]

Well, as with any plan, it's not set until you start brewing, right?

I went into my LHBS and talked to the owner (he's actually a brewer). He suggested I used Pilsner to help target more towards the Miller Lite taste. He let me eat some of the grains and I think I'll be pleased with how it comes out.

So, final recipe is:


Ingredients:
***********************
7.75 lb. German Pilsner Malt
1.00 oz. Cascade (7.2%) Whole Hops - First Wort Hop
1.00 packet SafAle US-05 dry yeast

Beer Smith calculations:
***********************
OG: 1.037
FG: 1.011
Color: 3.0 SRM
IBU: 26.6

Actual OG was 1.038 for right at 5.5 gallons. I noticed that as this beer was pouring out of my boiler and into my fermenter, THIS BEER IS PALE!!!!!

I expected it, but it's barely, barely not colorless!

I re-hydrated the yeast well, and pitched last night about 6. This morning (12 hours later), there's a ton of activity. Smell from blowoff is minimal to none.

I'm looking forward to this. I just kegged a Cream Ale that is light and refreshing. At first, I wasn't too keen on it, but after Bob's rant, I'm trying to enjoy it for what it is. It's not an IPA, so it shouldn't taste like one. I'm going to have the same mindset with this beer.

Anyway, here's hoping I can finally ease my dad into drinking my beer (and maybe brewing with me!)

By the way, is it possible for the BJCP to create a new category for this kind of beer? It's way too light (color), light (OG) and light (IBU) to be even an APA, and its closest "cousins" are English Ales. Should they create a kind of "extra" category for SMaSH beers? Maybe like:

10D: American Extra Pale Ale
OG: 1.030 - 1.045
FG: 1.005 - 1.012
IBU: 12 - 30
SRM: 2 - 5
ABV: 3.2 - 4.8

Basically, for IPA and IIPA, I can hit all of the numbers except SRM. For the Extra Pale Ale, the color, gravity and IBU are all lower. So, maybe for IPA and IIPA, the style can just go lower on the SRM scale, but the session Extra Pale Ale SMaSH seems to need its own category.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Wow that's just too weird. I just brewed a FWH Amer. Ord. Bitter with bigtime Hop presence. All Cascades. I brewed

5.5# M.O.
.75# Crystal 20
2 oz. FWH Cascade 7.1%
2 oz. DH Cascade

WOW is it hoppy. It's bottle conditioning right now, but it's a dreamy hoppy bier, not for the faint of heart. I know it's above 70 IBUs, but according to all the post on here about FWH I was expecting it to taste more like 35. It comes in tasting like 50-60 in this small bier.

I'm sure yours will be more drinkable to your dad. Good luck.

Schlante,
Phillip