See recipes at Austin before buying?

[MikeRoBrew1]

Hey brew crew -

Am I missing something or does Austin Homebrew not list the actual amounts of grains in the all grain kits? I would like to put together the recipe myself but I am thinking they are trying to prevent that by not telling my the percentages of grain although they do list the grain type.

Just thought I would ask. Thanks!

 

[noggins]

I noticed that myself...makes replication difficult. What recipe are you trying to put together?

 

[bob1852]

Replication is easy. If you buy the kit, the ingredients and quantities are listed on the brew sheet....

 

[skyebrewing]

Think about it from their point... if they give you the whole recipe, why buy it from them? Use the recipe board here for free if you want all the answers up front

 

[topend]

Think about it from their point... if they give you the whole recipe, why buy it from them? Use the recipe board here for free if you want all the answers up front

Northern Brewer lets you see the exact ingredients and steps for each recipe on their website, and they are the only company I have ever purchased ingredients and kits from. It's a courtesy I really appreciate because I can see how different types of beers are made and what types of grains and hops are used. They aren't losing any money on me by showing me the recipes.

 

[pm5k00]

they tell you the specialty grains and quantity for base malt and total of specialty grains, so you can somewhat figure it out. Web site lets you know the variety of hops included too,and the yeast, and the OG and anticipated ABV, if your experienced enough at recipe formulation i bet you could get pretty close.

 

[noggins]

Replication is easy. If you buy the kit, the ingredients and quantities are listed on the brew sheet....

Last kit I got from AHS had this listed on the brew sheet:

Specialty Grains: 3lb

My lhbs doesn't sell specialty grains

 

[Chefencore]

Northern Brewer lets you see the exact ingredients and steps for each recipe on their website... They aren't losing any money on me by showing me the recipes.

I've actually reviewed these recipes, and tried to find a cheaper alternative. NB does NOT upcharge for their kits. The total amount is equal to the sum of the parts. Philosophists, figure that out. Unless you need more of a certain ingredient, there is no need to construct a kit yourself. And they give you clear, concise instructions. And they are quick with online feedback if help is needed.

 

[sonetlumiere85]

Think about it from their point... if they give you the whole recipe, why buy it from them? Use the recipe board here for free if you want all the answers up front

Because a recipe is just a recipe. Stores don't make that much money on ingredients, there's no incentive to be secretive.

 

[bob1852]

Last kit I got from AHS had this listed on the brew sheet:

Specialty Grains: 3lb

My lhbs doesn't sell specialty grains

Of course they do. They sell lots of specialty grains. Just pick out 3 lbs worth

Seriously thought, 'tThat's a change - all of the kits I've bought from AHS has the ingredients on the sheet...though, I haven't bought kits in awhile.

I understand why AHS doesn't list the complete breakdown on their website (they do afterall have something like 1600 kits). They've spent the time and money to formulate those kits and don't want people blantantly copying them.

If you don't like that, there's plent of places to buy from that list complete ingredients on the web. I've never understood why it's an issue......

Buy from where you want to.

 

[skyebrewing]

Because a recipe is just a recipe. Stores don't make that much money on ingredients, there's no incentive to be secretive.

That is my opinion as well, but its not everyones opinion. I've asked brewers for recipes and have been shot down due to it being a "secret recipe". Hell, look at Can you brew it trying to get the arrogant bastard recipe without success. Some people just don't share everything for one reason or another.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Last kit I got from AHS had this listed on the brew sheet:

Specialty Grains: 3lb

My lhbs doesn't sell specialty grains

When was that? I've not seen that, mine (including one ordered last week) have always said exactly what the grains were, including quantity. Curious as to why yours didn't.

 

[bucfanmike]

I buy from both midwest, northern brewer, AHS and I have my first order coming from bmw tomorrow. I have only ever ordered all grain kits. I understand AHS stance on not providing it online, but I dont really like it. The kits I have gotten from AHS have all come with the full ingredient list, but as I am still learning I do like to see whats in the kit to compare before buying. I also think it would be beneficial for those who sometimes like to add a pound of base grain to match the kit to make up for efficiency issues when learning your system. On the positive side for AHS it was very nice to have all my grains sealed in a bag versus just wrapped up with a zip tie like midwest and NB. Also AHS didnt substitute my hops and all kits came with what was listed on the instruction sheet, not so much with my last kits from midwest.

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

Since I am the OP, just for fun, I'll explain. I bought kits for about 6mo from Midwest. Then I started buying my grain and hops in bulk. For me, 'bulk' for a personal homebrewer is 50lb sacks of base grain, 1-5lbs of other grains, and 1lb bags of hops.

Now I am after recipes to brew with ingredients I already have. I'm just looking for some variety and Austin does have a lot of kits. I am well aware that I can get recipes from other places although thanks for the suggestion.

I was just curious if Austin had the grain bill somewhere on the site I wasn't seeing; sometimes there is a download of instructions. Also good to know that if I do buy the kit, I can keep the recipe for myself afterwards.

On a side note, I am finding it frustrating that no matter how many different grains I buy it seems like every recipe I look at, I am missing something dangit lol.

 

[wildwest450]

Last kit I got from AHS had this listed on the brew sheet:

Specialty Grains: 3lb

My lhbs doesn't sell specialty grains

I've done 20+ all grain kits from them, the exact ingredients are ALWAYS listed on the instruction sheet as well as on the grain bag, if not, they will e-mail you the ingredients.


_

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Last kit I got from AHS had this listed on the brew sheet:

Specialty Grains: 3lb

My lhbs doesn't sell specialty grains

The recipe sheets have complete information. Every recipe sheet that comes with the kit tells exactly what grain and how much. If you buy the kit you can easily remake it.

We have the best recipes and the most recipes. I don't want to be a recipe database for other stores. We take a lot of time to develop our recipes. I just ask that you buy the kit once and then you can buy the ingredients else where if you want. We don't charge for the recipe just the ingredients.

Thanks for understanding.

Forrest

Forrest

 

[doctorRobert]

The annoying part is when you buy a kolsch recipe, and it completely not to style as it has ounces of late addition EKG and vanguard. I will never buy another AHS recipe again, and I use to ONLY shop there. Until they provide more information on their kits upfront I won't purchase anything from there.

I recommend the brewmasterswarehouse brew builder and start making popular recipes that you see here on HBT or in books. If you want to still order from AHS, its still very easy to forumulate a recipe as you can add different ingredients and exact amounts to one grain bill.

edit: I dont know why they think somebody will steal their recipes. People order kits for convenience. There's thousands of recipes on the internet that could be stolen and offered and you simply dont see homebrew shops doing that. Also - that Kolsch recipe I complained about above, I found something almost identical on the internet. So it wasnt exactly an original.

It's also nice to enter into the ingredients in brewing software before ordering, or before the kit arrives. And to have an electronic backup.

But that's their choice. I don't mean to be disrespectful to AHS, they always provided good customer service and they're a great shop, but I'm not going to buy a kit from them again.

 

[wildwest450]

The annoying part is when you buy a kolsch recipe, and it completely not to style as it has ounces of late addition EKG and vanguard. I will never buy another AHS recipe again, and I use to ONLY shop there. Until they provide more information on their kits upfront I won't purchase anything from there.

I don't recall seeing a disclaimer that their recipes are formulated to strict BCJP guidelines. And most people order kits because they aren't comfortable formulating their own recipe, or want to try a clone of something, a recipe calculator won't help with that.

_

 

[njschmidt]

We have the best recipes and the most recipes. I don't want to be a recipe database for other stores. We take a lot of time to develop our recipes. I just ask that you buy the kit once and then you can buy the ingredients else where if you want.

I understand where you're coming from, but there are other reasons people might want to see the ingredients before they purchase a kit. I, for one, am allergic to rye and end up only purchasing those kits that I am positive will not contain it (which means I purchase very few kits from AHS).

I would like to purchase more kits, as I've been pleased with the ones I've tried so far, but I'm not going to risk an allergic reaction and a trip to the ER.

 

[doctorRobert]

I don't recall seeing a disclaimer that their recipes are formulated to strict BCJP guidelines. And most people order kits because they aren't comfortable formulating their own recipe, or want to try a clone of something, a recipe calculator won't help with that.

_

I'm not saying it has to be to BJCP guidelines, in fact I never said that. But just because you call it a kolsche, doesnt make it a kolsch. That recipe would not pass for a kolsche, which was what I wanted to make. I contacted them, and they have since updated their description to mention the all the late hopping.

edit: especially for a kolsch style beer, there isnt room for creativity. It's not like an IPA were there are endless of possibilities.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I understand where you're coming from, but there are other reasons people might want to see the ingredients before they purchase a kit. I, for one, am allergic to rye and end up only purchasing those kits that I am positive will not contain it (which means I purchase very few kits from AHS).

I would like to purchase more kits, as I've been pleased with the ones I've tried so far, but I'm not going to risk an allergic reaction and a trip to the ER.

I bet they would tell you if the recipes contained rye if you asked. Obviously, that's an extra step, and that's fine if you don't want to take it. But them not showing their recipe probably isn't a valid roadblock to you buying rye-free kits from them if you wanted.

 

[Mikey_Dawg]

edit: I dont know why they think somebody will steal their recipes. People order kits for convenience. There's thousands of recipes on the internet that could be stolen and offered and you simply dont see homebrew shops doing that. Also - that Kolsch recipe I complained about above, I found something almost identical on the internet. So it wasnt exactly an original.

If AHS truly does have the most recipe kits (I dont personally know) or even one of the most, then it makes complete sense to me to want to protect their "intellectual property" which are their recipes. If AHS spent 1,000 man hours to come up with all of these recipes, it is really fair that competitor X could start a homebrew supply company tomorrow and have 1600 recipes to start selling b/c AHS listed every recipe online? I don't think so.

Why wouldn't a competitor use their recipes if they were available? How is this so hard to comprehend...it's business. Homebrewing is a hobby for most all of us but AHS is the livelyhood for the owner and employees and it only makes sense, IMO, to want to protect what they've worked hard for.

 

[doctorRobert]

edit: I dont know why they think somebody will steal their recipes. People order kits for convenience. There's thousands of recipes on the internet that could be stolen and offered and you simply dont see homebrew shops doing that. Also - that Kolsch recipe I complained about above, I found something almost identical on the internet. So it wasnt exactly an original.
QUOTE]

If AHS truly does have the most recipe kits (I dont personally know) or even one of the most, then it makes complete sense to me to want to protect their "intellectual property" which are their recipes. If AHS spent 1,000 man hours to come up with all of these recipes, it is really fair that competitor X could start a homebrew supply company tomorrow and have 1600 recipes to start selling b/c AHS listed every recipe online? I don't think so.

Why wouldn't a competitor use their recipes if they were available? How is this so hard to comprehend...it's business. Homebrewing is a hobby for most all of us but AHS is the livelyhood for the owner and employees and it only makes sense, IMO, to want to protect what they've worked hard for.

Ok - so who sells NB's kit as their own then? I have yet to see any shop "steal" a recipe. In fact, most brew shops promote their recipe when its somebody else's (like what morebeer is doing, or NB).

I'm not telling them what to do. They think that's best for them and they should do what's best for them. I chose to spend my money where I want. It's a free country. I'm perfectly happy with my new homebrew shop. So I dont see the need to go out of my way and email AHS about specific ingredients each time I want to order a kit. I'll take my money elsewhere. Vote with my wallet. Very simple.

edit: Maybe they are the ones stealing recipes which is why they don't post them - kidding

 

[Mikey_Dawg]

Ok - so who sells NB's kit as their own then? I have yet to see any shop "steal" a recipe. In fact, most brew shops promote their recipe when its somebody else's (like what morebeer is doing, or NB).

I'm not telling them what to do. They think that's best for them and they should do what's best for them. I chose to spend my money where I want. It's a free country. I'm perfectly happy with my new homebrew shop. So I dont see the need to go out of my way and email AHS about specific ingredients each time I want to order a kit. I'll take my money elsewhere. Vote with my wallet. Very simple.

edit: Maybe they are the ones stealing recipes which is why they don't post them - kidding

Man, I don't know if anyone is out there actualy copying recipe kits but I personally dont have a problem with AHS keeping the recipe details for the customer. Especially when they have the largest selection...

IMO, most people buying kits are in the beginning stages of brewing anyway so I guess I just dont see a problem with not getting the recipe details until I purchase and brew a kit. That was at least my sentiment when I first started.

Now that I have been brewing for a while I'll still buy kits here and there but have started to create my own recipes. Since AHS has been the only company I have bought from since 2006 for recipe kits and they have always had great service, instructions, and beer kits I dont see the point in getting upset over them not publishing all their reciepes for the world to see. It would put them at a competitive disadvantage to do so IMO.

To each his own though... so if you are more comfortable buying a kit knowing the ingredients first then more power to you. I just trust that the recipe will be good regardless (cause they always have for me) and dont worry about it. Now that I have more brewing experience, I will just create my own recipes.

 

[DD2000GT]

I too have chaffed over this. I am an all grain brewer and fairly picky over ingredients. I got a Texas Bock that instead of using roasted grains to color the brew they sent a small packet of coloring that left the beer with a sick opaque brown color that did not look natuaral at all. Same with a spiced porter I just made. Also - hop varieties that normally don't go in the style.

Not bashing AHS - I like the guys and their service. Just wished they catered to the true enthusiast that are very picky about what goes in their brew. Posting the ingedients is not that big of a deal IMO, and most suppliers do this.

 

[dogbar]

I got a Texas Bock that instead of using roasted grains to color the brew they sent a small packet of coloring that left the beer with a sick opaque brown color that did not look natuaral at all.

That coloring is purportedly the same stuff Shiner uses ...

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I understand where you're coming from, but there are other reasons people might want to see the ingredients before they purchase a kit. I, for one, am allergic to rye and end up only purchasing those kits that I am positive will not contain it (which means I purchase very few kits from AHS).

I would like to purchase more kits, as I've been pleased with the ones I've tried so far, but I'm not going to risk an allergic reaction and a trip to the ER.

You can always call us @ 1-800-890-2739 or email at [email protected] We are glad to help.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

It is not about other stores stealing the recipe and calling it thier own. I am sure there are lots of customers that make one of our kits and really like it and want to make it again. Then they go to the lhbs with our recipe sheet and get the ingredients. Or they order the ingredients from another store. I am fine with that. It would be nice if they bought the kit from us at least once, because of the work that went into it and to support the employees here. If the recipes are listed on line they wouldn't even have to do that.

If you would like specific information on a recipe just call us up and we will share and help you place an order if you would like.

Forrest

 

[Teromous]

I do not want to berate Forest for anything, but I do agree with others that having recipes posted online makes it a lot easier when choosing kits from suppliers and knowing what you're buying before hand. I appreciate that we can call you to figure out what's included in a kit, but it's much easier to be able to look at things online.

Again I'm not being argumentative, it's just that my point of view aligns more with the others.

 

[Yooper]

The recipe sheets have complete information. Every recipe sheet that comes with the kit tells exactly what grain and how much. If you buy the kit you can easily remake it.

We have the best recipes and the most recipes. I don't want to be a recipe database for other stores. We take a lot of time to develop our recipes. I just ask that you buy the kit once and then you can buy the ingredients else where if you want. We don't charge for the recipe just the ingredients.

Thanks for understanding.

Forrest

Forrest

I think we've all made our points. If you don't agree, that's fine. But this is not a platform to "me too!" the point. I think everyone has said their piece, and AHS has given a "why" which is more than is required. If you don't agree, that's fine. But I think this post from AHS says it all.