Secondary headspace too much?

[ImperialDrHops]

Just brewed my first Kolsch beer using Wyeast 2565 and it spent 12 days in primary at 64 degrees. OG 1.048 and finished at 1.004. I racked to secondary to lager for two weeks and there is a bit more headspace than I want (see picture below) and now I'm concerned about too much oxygen sitting on it. This is the first time I'm using this yeast and almost all of it was racked into secondary as the sediment was almost zero. Will the yeast still be working to create more co2 and push the air out, or should I hit with co2? If I hit with co2, how exactly do people do it?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Easy fix: don't use a secondary vessel.

Transferring the beer has no benefit and it increases oxidation and risk of contamination.

Say Hasta la Vista to those outdated kit instructions!

For this beer, package it now.

 

[ImperialDrHops]

Easy fix: don't use a secondary vessel.

The only decision I was making was whether to rack to carboy or keg because the primary didn't fit in the fridge. And I was thinking if I rack to keg I'll get a lot of the yeast sediment once it falls out. I guess if it doesn't matter I can just re rack to keg and lager in that. But what do people do with the yeast cake that forms? Seems like it could clog the keg line trying to pour when ready to drink.

 

[Bubbles2]

That 2ndary will make a perfect primary, although I have found that a spigot is preferred. Can drill one in.
I had found within the first couple of batches with those antiquated inst. as RPH stated are useless. If you think transferring and leaving a pint of beer when transferring into a secondary to do it again at racking to avoid haze in your beer is the "way to go".
Think again, I'd rather leave 2 pints of beer atop of the Primary at rack time, plus leaving the beer atop the yeast cake is a much better tasting beer, as the yeast are still working albeit no bubbles to know, they are. Read about the Life of Brewing Yeast. "G" it.
AND....when you rack, it will still have a slight bit of trub or yeast at the bottom of a bottle due to priming, where most of us pour into a glass gently and leave a 1/4" at the bottom of the bottle and rinse out to pour a clean clear beer. I could show you pics, if you doubt it. Trust the Force.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeast won't clog the dispensing lines; it does not form hard clumps. You should leave the vast majority of the yeast cake behind in the fermenter.
The first pint or so may be yeasty.

 

[balrog]

I keg from primary
I get sediment
If I need to transport keg somewhere I pressure transfer to new keg, otherwise leave sediment be. I've never had a clog, but neither do I dry hop (yet), but the yeast cake certainly will not clog things. It will cloud the first few pours, and again if jostled, but it sits there, content in existential post workout, just chillin on the bottom, staying out of trouble and waiting for something good to come on Netflix.

 

[Bubbles2]

Yeast won't clog the dispensing lines; it does not form hard clumps. You should leave the vast majority of the yeast cake behind in the fermenter.
The first pint or so may be yeasty.

Yes to this ▲ ▲ ▲ - First couple of draws, you may get a little sediment but it is only vitamin B. I did not see you were kegging, same idea.

 

[MaxStout]

If you're very careful when racking, you shouldn't get much yeast in the keg. Keep the bottom of the racking cane or autosiphon just under the surface the beer and follow it down as the level drops. Don't put it near the bottom from the beginning as turbulence around the inlet will stir up yeast. When the level is just about to the cake, tip the fermenter and carefully get as much of the last bit of beer in the corner. When that's done, pull up on the siphon before it sucks in yeast.

And +1 on the no secondaries thing. About the only time you need to rack beer to a secondary is if you are planning to bulk-age it a long time (like 6 months-plus). Otherwise, leaving beer on the cake is not an issue at homebrewing volumes. That bad advice filtered into the homebrewing world years ago, because leaving beer on the cake in large commercial vessels is a problem (greater pressures in those big conicals) and someone assumed it would also apply to home brewing. It doesn't. Even the previous proponents of mandatory secondaries have since reversed their position.

Brew shops want to sell you two fermenters. More $$ spent.

 

[Bubbles2]

If you're very careful when racking, you shouldn't get much yeast in the keg. Keep the bottom of the racking cane or autosiphon just under the surface the beer and follow it down as the level drops. Don't put it near the bottom from the beginning as turbulence around the inlet will stir up yeast. When the level is just about to the cake, tip the fermenter and carefully get as much of the last bit of beer in the corner. When that's done, pull up on the siphon before it sucks in yeast.

And +1 on the no secondaries thing. About the only time you need to rack beer to a secondary is if you are planning to bulk-age it a long time (like 6 months-plus). Otherwise, leaving beer on the cake is not an issue at homebrewing volumes. That bad advice filtered into the homebrewing world years ago, because leaving beer on the cake in large commercial vessels is a problem (greater pressures in those big conicals) and someone assumed it would also apply to home brewing. It doesn't. Even the previous proponents of mandatory secondaries have since reversed their position.

Brew shops want to sell you two fermenters. More $$ spent.

I think the OP has been answered and with an agreed consensus. So without feeling a thread is being hijacked; Why move it to a secondary if leaving for a period of time? The Yeast will not rot under beer, AMF that is how most store yeast. Albeit the yeast loses colony month after month.
I ask because I have a batch that is sitting in a primary for 2 months now, as I cannot drink for another couple of months so no need to Keg it. I hear every once in a while a burp from it, not yeast activity, but I think I read it is equalizing gases... whatever that is supposed to mean. Like fartin in the morn.

 

[Bubbles2]

Also at OP, when first placing your Primary to start, set it at an angle or tilt. This way as it settles it settles more to one side and after it packs for a couple of weeks when setting it level you will have a low side to set your cane at. Mine has a spigot so it gets tilted back away from spigot so when I rack the cake is off to the back and not so much "right under the spigot opening".

 

[BrewInspector]

The recommendation of secondary for long term aging comes from the worry of autolysis. This is not going to be an issue over a couple months but could be if you are ageing for several.

A few months isn't going to hurt anything. Exactly how long is to long is debatable.

 

[Bubbles2]

The recommendation of secondary for long term aging comes from the worry of autolysis. This is not going to be an issue over a couple months but could be if you are ageing for several.

A few months isn't going to hurt anything. Exactly how long is to long is debatable.

Dead or dying Yeast create off flavors?

N.M looked it up Thanks again
http://www.howtobrew.com/book/section-1/what-is-different-for-brewing-lager-beer/autolysis

 

[Yooper]

I don't do long primary fermentations because while maybe I don't get autolysis rapidly, sitting on a yeast cake does impact the flavor of the beer. Some people actually prefer the flavor of a longer contact time with the yeast, others (like me) don't.

My solution is to keg once I'm ready to lager or once the beer starts to drop clear. I will often dryhop in the primary, then rack to the keg after three days of dryhopping.
Kolsch yeast will not ever drop really clear until the beer is lagered a bit, and even though it may not get brilliantly bright without filtration.

 

[ImperialDrHops]

My solution is to keg once I'm ready to lager or once the beer starts to drop clear. I will often dryhop in the primary, then rack to the keg after three days of dryhopping.
Kolsch yeast will not ever drop really clear until the beer is lagered a bit, and even though it may not get brilliantly bright without filtration.

This is exactly what I do with normal ale yeasts. Primary for 2-3 weeks, dry hop if required, then keg and carb. But I've never done a Kolsch and my understanding is that although as you say, the yeast has a really hard time dropping out of suspension, I didn't want a giant trub of yeast at the bottom of the keg. But as others have said, this isn't really an issue.

I'm going to head home and rack to a keg to get rid of headspace and see what happens. On a related note, I used Clarity Ferm at the recommendation of the homebrew shop and I'll skip the gelatin to see how this works.

 

[Gregory T]

"The case for secondary fermentation: Secondary fermentation is beneficial to all beer styles if you have a good understanding of fermentation processes and can complete the transfer carefully. The key is in mastering some of the simple facts of racking"

from the article


https://www.morebeer.com/articles/conditioning

 

[Sauls]

Call me old, but I still rack over to glass as I still feel it’s beneficial getting off the yeast cake and trub. About a dozen batches and good results thus far. If your in a PET which will eventually transfer oxygen, going into glass carboy why not. But like this hobby/passion each person has there method and do what makes you happy. But I join you in the secondary boys club

 

[day_trippr]

[...]from the article https://www.morebeer.com/articles/conditioning

I wonder if Mr Palmer still believes secondaries make sense. Pretty sure he had another revision of his "How To Brew" book since 2012.
To me there's simply no added value (and too much risk) for all but huge brews that need so much time to mature that leaving the beer on the cake could lead to issues...

Cheers!

 

[Gregory T]

I wonder if Mr Palmer still believes secondaries make sense. Pretty sure he had another revision of his "How To Brew" book since 2012.
To me there's simply no added value (and too much risk) for all but huge brews that need so much time to mature that leaving the beer on the cake could lead to issues...

Cheers!

that article is July 2012

I feel How to Brew is mostly aimed at beginning brewers with some advanced info

I brew Belgians nearly exclusively. Mostly Blondes and Trippels. I feel a secondary is beneficial for these styles. However, I do not typically rack my Saisons.

in addition plastic is terrible at keeping out O2. I sometimes leave it in my flex