Secondary fermentation, headspace, and adding apple juice concentrate

[Beerosaurus]

Hello. Fairly newbie here. Recently I started fermenting about 4 gallons of cider made from pasteurized organic apple juice and champagne yeast, in a 5 gallon carboy.

1:I plan to rack it to a secondary (I think) but I'm concerned about oxidation from the headspace in my second carboy. I figured a good solution would be to add some apple juice concentrate to the secondary to kick up the yeast some more to make co2, and to add apple flavor. Is this a good idea? Also how much should I add? One can good?

2: Also, I plan to back sweeten with xylitol because of the dryness of champagne yeast. Should I do that during secondary fermentation or when I add it to my bottling bucket at the end?

Here is a picture of my setup. Two 5 gallon carboys, and some concern for the headspace since when I rack to secondary there will be even more.

http://imgur.com/a/bXiL5

 

[bernardsmith]

HI Beerosaurus, and welcome. The issue is not whether you should add one can. The issue is how to make sure that in the secondary (or more accurately, when the active fermentation has ceased) your carboy is fillled right up inside the neck of the vessel. Given the amount of headroom I think you may need a smaller container...

 

[Beerosaurus]

I was under impression that headspace is only an issue if there is no active fermentation. Obviously next batch I will have more to begin with, but for the current one would my theory work?

 

[slym2none]

That's pretty much what bernardsmith said.

HI Beerosaurus, and welcome. The issue is not whether you should add one can. The issue is how to make sure that in the secondary (or more accurately, when the active fermentation has ceased) your carboy is fillled right up inside the neck of the vessel. Given the amount of headroom I think you may need a smaller container...

(emphasis mine)

 

[Beerosaurus]

Ok. So should I just leave in primary then to not risk oxidation?

 

[slym2none]

If you add a gallon of apple juice without somehow turning off the yeast, you will just re-start fermentation. If that's not a problem for you, then cool. You could add cider (as in, alcohol) or get a smaller carboy if it is a problem.

 

[Beerosaurus]

So for fear of oxidation I think my plan is to keep in primary for 2-3 weeks then transfer to bottling bucket where I will add the xylitol for back sweetener and the dextrose for back carbonation. Then I can bottle it and leave it for another 2-3 weeks for carbonation and that can also be a pseudo-secondary. Should be able to age well in the bottles hopefully. No full secondary or juice concentrate.

Does that plan seem reasonable?

 

[slym2none]

If active fermentation is going on those entire 2-3 weeks, that's fine re: headspace. If not... you need to have less headspace.

Or do you want to go for infected?

 

[Beerosaurus]

I do not. You're saying even now add more juice? Strict no large headspace policy?

 

[slym2none]

I am saying what the others are saying - once active fermentation is complete, you need to have as little headspace as possible. 4 gal. in a 5 gal. carboy is too much headspace.

 

[bernardsmith]

Wine making ain't brewing. Wine makers - and that includes those who make cider generally make a LARGER volume of must than they intend to bottle, use a bucket as their primary and when they rack into the secondary the carboy will be filled to the tippy top. Brewers generally choose to have about 1/3 or 1/4 of the volume of their primary as headroom to allow for the krausen that is produced but they bottle days after the active fermentation has ended.