Second Fermentation

[OtisLamb]

I have a general question concerning second fermentation.

I have been toying with the idea of introducing a second yeast batch in my second fermentation process.

Does anyone have any pro's or con's as to why I should or should not do this?

 

[daksin]

Some people blend yeasts to get a mixture of their characteristics, but you really need to do it at the beginning of fermentation. White Labs (maybe Wyeast too?) even sells their yeasts already blended in nice combinations (American Ale blend, Cream Ale blend, Belgian Blend, and brett/bacteria blends too like Berliner Weiss Blend and American Farmhouse blend). Adding new yeast to beer that's already been fermented does nothing, as the low pH and high alcohol will just shut the new yeast down.

You may have heard of using a secondary fermentor, which is a bit of a misnomer. Clearing vessel would be more appropriate, something akin to a large brewery's "brite tank," although we don't carbonate in there like the big guys do. It's just moving your beer to another bucket or carboy to get it off the yeast. Many folks (myself included) think that's an unnecessary step most of the time, except for a few choice circumstances.

 

[Revvy]

You are getting "secondary fermentation" and a secondary confused for one thing.

Secondary fermentation is a misnomer, since no fermentaion SHOULD happen in the secondary. The secondary is to clear your beer/wine/cider/mead.

There is a "secondary fermentation stage," but it happens in your primary along with lagtime, and reproductive phase. It is part of the life cycle of the yeast, and it all happens before it is time to move it to a clearing tank, (secondary vessel or brite tank"

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase

The fermentation of malt sugars into beer is a complicated biochemical process. It is more than just the conversion of sugar to alcohol, which can be regarded as the primary activity. Total fermentation is better defined as three phases, the Adaptation or Lagtime phase, the Primary or Attenuative phase and a Secondary or Conditioning phase. The yeast do not end Phase 2 before beginning Phase 3, the processes occur in parallel, but the conditioning processes occur more slowly. As the majority of simple sugars are consumed, more and more of the yeast will transition to eating the larger, more complex sugars and early yeast by-products. This is why beer (and wine) improves with age to a degree, as long as they are on the yeast. Beer that has been filtered or pasteurized will not benefit from aging.

The reactions that take place during the conditioning phase are primarily a function of the yeast. The vigorous primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast cells are going dormant - but some are still active.

The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase. ...

It's easy to see how confusing the terms are...that's why we try to get outta the habit of saying secondary fermentation...and just say secondary...or bright tank (mostly just secondary, dropping fermenter or fermentation, since fermentation should be finished before you rack it to the secondary. After the hydrometer reading stays the same for 3 days.

You don't need to add more yeast because you're not trying to ferment anything, you're trying to clear the beer.

 

[daksin]

Gotcha covered, Revv. The ol' CTRL-C CTRL-V workin a little slow these days?

 

[OtisLamb]

Thank you for the information.

Some people blend yeasts to get a mixture of their characteristics, but you really need to do it at the beginning of fermentation. White Labs (maybe Wyeast too?) even sells their yeasts already blended in nice combinations (American Ale blend, Cream Ale blend, Belgian Blend, and brett/bacteria blends too like Berliner Weiss Blend and American Farmhouse blend). Adding new yeast to beer that's already been fermented does nothing, as the low pH and high alcohol will just shut the new yeast down.

You may have heard of using a secondary fermentor, which is a bit of a misnomer. Clearing vessel would be more appropriate, something akin to a large brewery's "brite tank," although we don't carbonate in there like the big guys do. It's just moving your beer to another bucket or carboy to get it off the yeast. Many folks (myself included) think that's an unnecessary step most of the time, except for a few choice circumstances.

 

[OtisLamb]

Thank you for your input. It appears that a 'second fermentation' is not required. I will still use the 'secondary' process as I am concerned with yeast waste. Also, it is part of the fun of brewing your own. Cheers

You are getting "secondary fermentation" and a secondary confused for one thing.

Secondary fermentation is a misnomer, since no fermentaion SHOULD happen in the secondary. The secondary is to clear your beer/wine/cider/mead.

There is a "secondary fermentation stage," but it happens in your primary along with lagtime, and reproductive phase. It is part of the life cycle of the yeast, and it all happens before it is time to move it to a clearing tank, (secondary vessel or brite tank"

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase



It's easy to see how confusing the terms are...that's why we try to get outta the habit of saying secondary fermentation...and just say secondary...or bright tank (mostly just secondary, dropping fermenter or fermentation, since fermentation should be finished before you rack it to the secondary. After the hydrometer reading stays the same for 3 days.

You don't need to add more yeast because you're not trying to ferment anything, you're trying to clear the beer.

 

[logan3825]

Thank you for your input. It appears that a 'second fermentation' is not required. I will still use the 'secondary' process as I am concerned with yeast waste. Also, it is part of the fun of brewing your own. Cheers

There really is little reason to worry about yeast waste.

 

[homebrewdad]

I secondary all of my beers, but mainly due to the fact that it gives me a security blanket against pulling extra trub into my bottling bucket.

Adding extra yeast will result in a nice layer of yeast at the bottom of your seconary... and little else, since the available sugars will already be consumed at that point; the new yeast are going to do little besides fall out of solution.

 

[logan3825]

You shouldn't transfer the beer until fermentation is complete.

 

[andvari7]

I have debated racking to secondary for a while now, and I've been doing it. I really shouldn't, and I suspect that I've ruined my last few batches because I've been racking to secondary. I'll just leave it alone next time.

 

[homebrewdad]

I have debated racking to secondary for a while now, and I've been doing it. I really shouldn't, and I suspect that I've ruined my last few batches because I've been racking to secondary. I'll just leave it alone next time.

It's not a necessary step, but unless you are splashing the beer (i.e. oxidizing it) or your sanitation is an issue, the act of secondarying the beer shouldn't harm it one bit.

 

[andvari7]

Well, I've spent as much time analyzing my failures as I have spent brewing the last three batches, trying to eliminate one possible cause at a time, until I get it right. This last session, I fermented my 1-gallon batch in glass carboys (I have two; it's also an issue of availability), thinking that it was the use of a cheap plastic bucket that was responsible for my beer having a strong plastic taste. If one-stage fermenting will do some sort of good, I'll do it.

 

[Yooper]

Well, I've spent as much time analyzing my failures as I have spent brewing the last three batches, trying to eliminate one possible cause at a time, until I get it right. This last session, I fermented my 1-gallon batch in glass carboys (I have two; it's also an issue of availability), thinking that it was the use of a cheap plastic bucket that was responsible for my beer having a strong plastic taste. If one-stage fermenting will do some sort of good, I'll do it.

A "strong plastic taste" tends to come from chlorine in the brewing water, and not from a plastic fermenter, believe it or not! It's from a compound called "chlorophenols" that come from combining fermentation with chlorine (or chloramines) in the water that was used for brewing.

 

[logan3825]

As long as your plastic is food safe, you should have no problems with buckets. I use buckets exclusively. I have only used a secondary for 2 batches out of 50.

 

[OtisLamb]

I have debated racking to secondary for a while now, and I've been doing it. I really shouldn't, and I suspect that I've ruined my last few batches because I've been racking to secondary. I'll just leave it alone next time.

I have not, as of yet, encountered any ruins due to secondary fermentation. I may be transferring it too early, based on the notes from above (and subsequent book readings), and I will use what I have learned for future brewings.

 

[andvari7]

That's probably it for me, as well. I bottle on Friday, so I'll know if I've done it right, or if I've ruined six more gallons.

 

[OtisLamb]

As a follow-up. I use a secondary fermentation about 95% of the time. I just consider it a part of the fun of brewing. It also allows me the ability to add hops and adjuncts, if necessary. Thanks for the input.

 

[logan3825]

As a follow-up. I use a secondary fermentation about 95% of the time. I just consider it a part of the fun of brewing. It also allows me the ability to add hops and adjuncts, if necessary. Thanks for the input.

You can add that stuff in the primary as well. I regularly dry hop in the primary.

 

[cjgenever]

I have a general question concerning second fermentation.

I have been toying with the idea of introducing a second yeast batch in my second fermentation process.

Does anyone have any pro's or con's as to why I should or should not do this?

Secondary fermentation doesn't really happen unless you are adding bugs. Most homebrewers idea of a secondary is actually a brite tank. It just a vessel to rest the beer and help clear it while freeing up the temperature controlled fermenter.

Yeast blends are usually added before/during fermentation.



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