Screw the Starter

[onthekeg]

I made 14 gallons of a Bass Ale clone friday night and was going to use 1968 on that batch from a new smack pack.
I brewed as usual, and filled 2 corneys with boiling wort when done, and put the last 4 gallons into a third to cool off. When cool I dumped the 4 gallon corney into an ale pail with the smack pack and stirred it into a frenzy with the drill stirrer. Every now and then I would check on it and sure enough at 24 hours massive foaming.

I dumped that pail into the conical, then dumped the next 2 corneys into that pail and into the conical for aeration.

Full of foam and going like mad now 8 hours later. It never made sense to me to make a 4 gallon starter for a large batch of beer. Make a smaller batch of beer and then when its going like crazy pitch it!

 

[benbradford]

you used one smack pack for the 14 gallons? No chill method? Do you wash yeast?

I usually overdo the pitching also, but I am using 375ml containers of washed yeast, and I will throw one per 5 gallons or so.

 

[EoinMag]

It never made sense to me to make a 4 gallon starter for a large batch of beer. Make a smaller batch of beer and then when its going like crazy pitch it!

So you made a 4 gallon starter, but you didn't make a starter?

 

[ayoungrad]

So you made a 4 gallon starter, but you didn't make a starter?

That's how it sounds to me...

 

[SwampassJ]

You have a conical but no saved slurry?

 

[Ace_Club]

In Soviet Russia, starter screws you!

 

[onthekeg]

You have a conical but no saved slurry?

I wanted to use a different yeast and started from a new smack pack.

 

[onthekeg]

So you made a 4 gallon starter, but you didn't make a starter?

It was just the beer starter rather than making enough on a stir plate and decanting. I suppose since I did let the 4 gallons "start" before pitching the balance of the batch I did make a starter, depends on perspective.

 

[SwampassJ]

It was just the beer starter rather than making enough on a stir plate and decanting. I suppose since I did let the 4 gallons "start" before pitching the balance of the batch I did make a starter, depends on perspective.

That's the best thing to do. No reason to waste 4 gallons of beer/starter. If I ever make batches where they call for 2+ gallons I'm making a half batch of beer first and pitching on the cake.

 

[rockfish42]

Perfectly normal thing to do
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Drauflassen

 

[yogensha]

...and filled 2 corneys with boiling wort when done...

Not related to your point, I know, but isn't there an increased chance of destroying your carboys and injuring yourself due to thermal shock by doing this?

 

[o4_srt]

Not related to your point, I know, but isn't there an increased chance of destroying your carboys and injuring yourself due to thermal shock by doing this?

He is using corney kegs, not glass carboys. Theyre either aluminum or stainless

 

[yogensha]

He is using corney kegs, not glass carboys. Theyre either aluminum or stainless

...and I haven't even been drinking...

 

[onthekeg]

Perfectly normal thing to do
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Drauflassen

Cool! Now I know the actual name!:rockin:

 

[InLimbo]

How does one determine the yeast cell count for something like this? Seems like it'd be easy to either under or over pitch.

 

[onthekeg]

How does one determine the yeast cell count for something like this? Seems like it'd be easy to either under or over pitch.

I am probably on the under pitch side to begin with, but yeast will find its own level so to speak with cell count as you feed it.

 

[benbradford]

Resurrection....

I have since this thread done a bit of research on yeast and am now of the opinion that all of the shortcuts and attempts of saving money with yeast washing and reusing is more potentially damaging to the final product than is worth the savings.

I have invested in a series of Erlenmeyer flasks and a good stir plate and grow starters to as close to a factual amount before pitching on chilled wort and aerating with bottled oxygen.

If I were to brew within 3 weeks of previous brew day I would consider reusing yeast.

Yeast under a washed distilled water layer would last in the fridge 13 days and I would never use more than 6 generations in this method.

The sanitation risk issues seem high for me when starting a small portion of the beer and adding more later. Another issue I have is the optimum growth rate of yeast would be at the 1.030 gravity which is way low for any beer. Also, if the beer is hopped, wouldn't the hop utilization be way off if you didn't chill?

 

[onthekeg]

Hi Ben,
I haven't had any issues with contamination doing it this way. The hop utilization is probably different with the no chill brewing, but it isn't enough to require much of a change from the standard recipe.

 

[sweetcell]

I made 14 gallons of a Bass Ale clone friday night and was going to use 1968 on that batch from a new smack pack.
I brewed as usual, and filled 2 corneys with boiling wort when done, and put the last 4 gallons into a third to cool off. When cool I dumped the 4 gallon corney into an ale pail with the smack pack and stirred it into a frenzy with the drill stirrer. Every now and then I would check on it and sure enough at 24 hours massive foaming.

I dumped that pail into the conical, then dumped the next 2 corneys into that pail and into the conical for aeration.

Full of foam and going like mad now 8 hours later. It never made sense to me to make a 4 gallon starter for a large batch of beer. Make a smaller batch of beer and then when its going like crazy pitch it!

i'm curious: are you at all concerned for the 10 gallons in the cornies that spend 24 hours without yeast? have you ever noticed any sour notes in your beer?

 

[winvarin]

i'm curious: are you at all concerned for the 10 gallons in the cornies that spend 24 hours without yeast? have you ever noticed any sour notes in your beer?

I've never done this, so all of my knowledge here is book and podcast knowledge. Jamil has spoken directly to this point a couple of times.

He maintains that if you are hyper attentive to your sanitation, you can with peace of mind leave your wort sealed and un pitched over night and just pitch when you reach your desired temp. He says that he used to do that regularly with lagers in order to allow the bulk of the break material to settle out so that he could dump it before pitching his yeast.

That being said, I'm personally on your side there. I spent the extra $ on a large gauge immersion chiller when I bought my 10 gallon system. I have 2 pumps. I use 1 to get a whirlpool started in my pot about 10 min before knockout. At knockout, I use my IC with hose water to get below 100f (80 on a cool day). Then I connect the second pump to my IC and recirculate ice water until I am at pitching temp. I can usually get 12 gallons from boiling to 60f in 30 min on a mid-90s summer day.

That way, I'm usually able to pitch right after my whirlpool spins down

 

[sweetcell]

I've never done this, so all of my knowledge here is book and podcast knowledge. Jamil has spoken directly to this point a couple of times.

He maintains that if you are hyper attentive to your sanitation, you can with peace of mind leave your wort sealed and un pitched over night and just pitch when you reach your desired temp. He says that he used to do that regularly with lagers in order to allow the bulk of the break material to settle out so that he could dump it before pitching his yeast.

somewhat off-topic: i believe that in in this case JZ is putting his semi-chilled wort into a fridge. so the temp of the wort isn't stabilizing at ambient (70*F or more), it's going down to lagering temps. i'd feel safer leaving my wort at 48*F than at 72...