Scotch ale

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UselessBrewing

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I want some input on the following recipe. I'm looking for this to be a smooth Scotch ale with some alcohol warmth to it. I was also thinking of adding some oak chips to it that I have soaking in bourbon.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: To Don a Kilt
Brewer: Preston Brown
Asst Brewer: Brown_Beer.gif
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (40.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.99 gal
Estimated OG: 1.102 SG
Estimated Color: 20.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 49.38 %
6 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 29.63 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.94 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.94 %
1 lbs Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 4.94 %
1 lbs Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 4.94 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.10 %] (60 min) Hops 20.2 IBU

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 20.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 25.31 qt of water at 171.3 F 158.0 F

Let me know what you think.

Cheers :mug:

Preston
 

The Blow Leprechaun

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Personally, bourbon in a scotch ale would not to be to my taste. Scotch ales already have a sweetish character to them, and bourbon will only add to that.

Are you mashing this at 158? I'm not sure I'm reading that line right, but I'd be very worried about that, too. You've got a lot of slightly unfermentable stuff in there, 2 pounds of crystal, 2 pounds of cara-malts, and a bunch of munich.
 
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UselessBrewing

UselessBrewing

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Yes that is 158 mash. To high you think? May be it should be around 150 for 60 min?
 

niquejim

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I would up the MO, get rid of the Munich and Cara's and add a few oz's of roasted barley. Then mash about 151-2 and boil for 90-120 minutes to get that caramel flavor, and use a Scottish yeast or call it an Old Ale.

And lose the bourbon
 

fuzzypumpkin

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This is the best scottish ale i've brewed so far:

25L batch - 75% efficiency
4600gm Maris Otter Grain 83%
240gm Amber Malt Grain 5%
240gm Crystal Malt Grain 5%
240gm Torrified Wheat Grain 5%
100gm Chocolate Malt Grain 2%

50gm Fuggles [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 25 IBU
20gm Fuggles [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 5.0 IBU

I went for 154 scottish beer is really all about a complex malt charachter, I used a neutral yeast, nottingham, this turned out really well.
 

Hagen

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Ray Daniels covered Scottish and Scotch ales from the 18th century to the present in Designing Great Beers.

Classical recipies used only pale malt and roast barley. Modern commercial examples include crystal malt. Some NHC second round homebrew versions also included chocolate, munich, and/or smoked/peated.

Mash temps range from 154*F to 158*F, and are typically single infusion.

Boils are hard fast and long to encourage caramelization. Hop additions usually consist of a single bittering addition at the start of the boil.

Clean yeast strains are desired to avoid esters overshadowing the malt flavor. Fermentation temperature should be between 55*F and 60*F, and can last 3 weeks or more.

Cold conditioning at 35*F to 45*F from six weeks to three months is beneficial.

I combined a touch of the traditional and modern in my recipie. I chose the argie cascades for their low AA value, since by the end of the boil, no hop flavor will be present. I could only maintain 63*F for the ferment, and it still dropped to 1.026 in 5 days. I expect to drop 2 to 3 more points by the time I rack for clearing this weekend.

Oggs
Strong Scotch Ale


Type: Partial Mash
Date: 7/4/2008
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Brewer: Hagen
Boil Size: 7.03 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 87.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.88 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 20.75 %
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.05 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.60 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3.60 %
2.00 oz Argentine Cascades [3.20 %] (60 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
5.50 gal Local Water Water
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #SA-05) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.086 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.086 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.05 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.12 %
Bitterness: 19.4 IBU Calories: 400 cal/pint
Est Color: 22.3 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 11.00 lb
Sparge Water: 5.16 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 13.75 qt of water at 175.9 F 156.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.0
Pressure/Weight: 9.0 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F Age for: 56.0 days
Storage Temperature: 45.0 F
 

niquejim

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The reason some people use smoked or peated malts is because they don't use Scottish yeast

I've said it before, you wouldn't use 05 in a German hefe so why should you use it in a Scottish Ale
 

Hagen

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The reason some people use smoked or peated malts is because they don't use Scottish yeast

I've said it before, you wouldn't use 05 in a German hefe so why should you use it in a Scottish Ale
The smoky flavor largely left Scottish ales when they began malting grain over coke fires instead of wood or peat.

As far as the yeast, we will have to agree to disagree. The experts and commercial brewers recommend a clean neutral strain, so why spend triple for what amounts to a brand name?

And I wouldn't use 05 in a hefe, I'd want the esters there. ;)
 

devaspawn

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Let's also remember that the style was created and practiced long before the discovery made by a certain doctor...we all remember his name right?

:tank:
 

niquejim

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The smoky flavor largely left Scottish ales when they began malting grain over coke fires instead of wood or peat.

As far as the yeast, we will have to agree to disagree. The experts and commercial brewers recommend a clean neutral strain, so why spend triple for what amounts to a brand name?

And I wouldn't use 05 in a hefe, I'd want the esters there. ;)
I taught some people how to AG a few weeks ago and they tried some of my Scottish 70/- and the first thing they noticed was the smokey flavor that came entirely from the yeast.
I believe Traquair House and Belhaven use Scottish yeast and they are commercial breweries(in Scotland),so I agree with them.
 

devaspawn

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To the OP it would seem that 151 to 152 would be an American style Scottish Ale.

http://www.bigoven.com/18624-American-Style-Scotch-Ale-recipe.html

If you want an American Style Scottish Ale go with what niquejim says as far as mashing temps are concerned.

According to Ray Daniels (who can really argue with him), you should mash anywhere from 155 to 158 for scottish ales. Check out this link for more info:

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/style/scottish.html

If you want a Scottish style Scottish Ale go with what Ray Daniels says. Your original mash temp is not wrong by any stretch of the imagination.

:tank:
 

Bearcat Brewmeister

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Both sides are right. Given the high amount of unfermentables in the grain bill, 158F would be too high. The alternative (and IMHO the correct thing to do) would be to tone that down (take the recommendations to get rid of the Munich and bump the MO) and get your unfermentables by mashing high (156-158). Also, I have used MO and like it in a Scottish or Scotch, but I have switched to Golden Promise and can't imagine switching back. It lends just a bit more sweetness than MO and really fits well.

I am also in the Scottish yeast camp (fermenting in the upper 50s / low 60s for 4 weeks and it makes for a clean and crystal clear beer), but for the folks that insist on using peated malt, keep it to an ounce or two in a 5 gallon batch. That is more than plenty - it should be understated, not in your face, and the stuff is powerful.
 

devaspawn

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absolutely Bearcat! My best recommendation would be for the OP to do some real research on the topic of Scottish Ales. His ingredients may not be right but his mash temp is within the range for the style - unless of course you are going for the American style Scottish Ale.

I understand the desire for the liquid yeasts. Getting a clean beer can be accomplished with a few different dry yeasts. If you want a truly Scottish style beer you will attempt to go the cheapest route to accomplish the same thing. Read Scottish history and you will realize that they skimped wherever they could. Go to Scotland and they will proudly proclaim it! :)

Be careful of the usage of that peated malt...

:tank:
 

The Blow Leprechaun

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While 154-158 might be an ideal mash temp for a normal scottish ale, he's got a predicted OG of 1.102. If he mashes at 158 with that, he's going to end up with syrup.

You mash higher on the normal scottish ales because they tend to be lower gravity and need the residual sugars to give body and flavor. Not true with this intended recipe.
 
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UselessBrewing

UselessBrewing

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Here is the final recipe which includes Scottish Yeast and the Local HBS had 7# of MO but plenty of Golden Promise so I opted for that instead. I did not have a yeast picked when I posted the original recipe. I think 1728 should be a nice fit because of its high tolerance for alcohol. As far as researching the style, I was basing my 158 temp from Ray Daniels but added the crystals and Munich because i like the carmels they impart. I did not take into account what the temp would do to these and I appreciate you guys pointing it out. You must agree that there are many opinions about the style out there and not many agree on much. Which is why I posted here. You guys have not steered me wrong yet, and I always get good beer from the experience/talent here. Because of the un-fermentables in the recipe I brought the temp down to compensate.

This has turned out to be a good thread, Thanks for the input!
--------------------------
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: To Don a Kilt
Brewer: Preston Brown
Asst Brewer: Brown_Beer.gif
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (40.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.99 gal
Estimated OG: 1.099 SG
Estimated Color: 17.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.50 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
17 lbs Golden Promise (2.0 SRM) Grain 87.18 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.13 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 5.13 %
8.0 oz Barley, Roasted (140.0 SRM) Grain 2.56 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.10 %] (60 min) Hops 20.6 IBU
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 19.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 24.38 qt of water at 166.6 F 154.0 F

Cheers

Preston
 

Hagen

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That looks good!:mug:

I like the simpler recipie. After you taste the results, then play with the recipie some to fine tune it to your tastes.
 

Chriso

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I really like this recipe, it looks promising. Keep us posted... I might brew this coming up soon. I've got my next couple of weekends already outlined, but early into August I'll have some free fermenters!
 

Bearcat Brewmeister

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Make sure you watch your fermentation temperature with that yeast. Try to keep it under 64F. With the high gravity it will really want to get active and it will produce a ton of heat from the fermentation. To maintain 64F, you may have to have the carboy in 55-57 ambient air or in a bucket of water with a towel around it. Just a recommendation, but I would go 1.5 to 2 weeks primary at 64F, then 2.5 to 4 weeks secondary at 58F, then age it for a few months.
 

Hagen

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I kept mine in that bathtub and added ice every 4-6 hours. I managed to keep it at 63*. Once I keg it, I'm going to forget about it until Halloween.
 
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UselessBrewing

UselessBrewing

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Brewed this last Sunday along with a Citrus Hefe. I hit all the temps dead on and it came in at 1.099.
I took a SG reading after 1 week in primary, it is currently at 1.038. I am expecting around 1.028. I have roused the yeast twice a day for the last week, and plan on keeping the pace for another week. I tasted a sample and cant wait to get this thing into bulk storage for aging!!

Cheers

Preston
 
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