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Schwarzbier Colour

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Krg7

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I am planning to brew a schwarzbier and I'm wondering what the best way to get it really dark without it tasting like a thin stout. I've found lots of recipes that say to use around 5% dark malts but when I put that in beersmith it only gives me an srm of 15 and I'm shooting for closer to 25. If I bump up the chocolate and roasted malt to 10% the srm is closer but I've read that 10% dark malt is way too much for a schwarzbier. I guess my question is how can I get the most colour out of the malt without going overboard on the roasty flavours?

** I only have access to chocolate and roasted malt** no carafa or dark munich
 

Immocles

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I'd never done it (but plan to experiment with it when I can make lagers again), but you could try tossing some of the roasted in as a late addition to the mash?
 

MrPowers

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If you have access to sinimar, use that to increase the SRM. If not, you could cold steep some of your chocolate malt.
 

Beer666

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I also used sinimar and around 2% midnight wheat but i have skipped roasted malt altogether just for sinimar and it was great.
 

Deadalus

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I just brewed a Schwarzbier, only my second, but I was working on the color as well. I had two Munich malts (regular) I used. The first time was using a 7-10 SRM Munich malt and the second, about a pound of the 7-10 Munich and then 4 pounds of 20 SRM Munich malt (same total weight of Munich). I have been meaning to look up the SRM on Dark Munich. I had 8 ozs of Carafa II in it and the recipe size was 6 gallons. I added 4 oz of chocolate malt (450 SRM) in the first batch and lightened it up slightly using 2 oz in the second. Second is still fermenting but it appears to have reduced the blackness/darkness slightly and shows a little more reddish hue. Percentage wise the Carafa and chocolate were 7.3% (25.5 SRM) and 6.4 % (24.4 SRM) in the first and second batches respectively. If you can't get the Carafa can you maybe get Blackprinz? I was going to try that next when I ran out of Carafa.
 

jrgtr42

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I brewed a Schwarzbier myself a little ways back. (so I used a German Ale yeast instead of the lager that's "proper" - I don't have the facilities for a real lager. Still came out tasty.)
The grain bill was
8lb PIlsner
1 lb light Munich
8 oz Midnight Wheat.
(sorry I don't have the conversions offhand for metric,)
By my seat of the pants math, that's somewhere around 5.3%?
The sheet shows SRM as 23.2
(yes, this was a kit, but thank Dog the full recipe is there and I can brew it on my own in the future - this one is going on the repeat list.)
 

couchsending

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50% Pils
30-40% Munich
Up to 15% Caramunich
Max 5% Carafa II Special

you can add the carafa at the end of the mash if you want. Adjust with Sinamar if need be.
 
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ebbelwoi

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I'd try adding 7-8% chocolate malt with maybe 10 minutes remaining in the mash. Or...

Can you be more specific about your "roasted" malts?
 

SanPancho

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not entirely clear if you're looking for more roast flavor without bitter? or just more color without bitter?

for the former, use the kilned/toasted stuff. special roast is good. something in the 80 to 120 range will work well without being bitter. a good 10-20% works well.

midnight wheat works well for color, no bitter edge. choc wheat does the same but not quite as dark.

add them all up and you have nice roasty no bitter easy drinker
 
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Krg7

Krg7

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I'd try adding 7-8% chocolate malt with maybe 10 minutes remaining in the mash. Or...

Can you be more specific about your "roasted" malts?
I have 1lb of chocolate malt and 1lb that is simply labeled "roasted malt grain"

The latter is darker than the chocolate malt.
 

ebbelwoi

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I have 1lb of chocolate malt and 1lb that is simply labeled "roasted malt grain"

The latter is darker than the chocolate malt.
In that case, I'd go with the roasted, and add it late in the mash. You'll still get the color, but less roasty bitterness. I'm sure if you Google "add dark malt late in mash" you'll find something useful.
 
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Krg7

Krg7

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Thanks everyone for the pointers
 
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Krg7

Krg7

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Thought I would update everyone on what I ended up doing. I ended up going with 3.8% roasted malt and 3.8% chocolate malt in the last 15 minutes of the mash. The colour is fantastic and the ashy/coffee/roasty flavour is minimal. Seems to have worked out well
 

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sehedw

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i just brewed a schwartzbier. 10% chocolate will be too much i thought. i added some dehusked carafa II and it worked
 

Beermeister32

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This is a clone of Köstritzer Schwarzbier. It came out IDENTICAL and I do mean identical. Brewed in May, the 5 months aging really improves the fantastic taste! Same flavor, same color, same head, lacing, etc. 3 people agreed, this one was spot on. Shown here, mine on the left, actual on the right. Recipe was a compilation of several internet recipes, final tweaking done on Brewer's Friend:
IMG_1789.JPG
IMG_1790.JPG
 
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ThenFalcon

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I'm just about to package one I brewed a few weeks ago. The base is Pilsner and Munich, plus 3.2% each C40 and Chocolate, and 1.6% each Roasted Barley and Carafa II - SRM around 25.
Are you able to share your Köstritzer clone recipe?
 

Beermeister32

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OK, here you go:

1.046 OG (however this batch came in at 1.055)
1.007 FG
5.13 ABV
22.37 IBU
29.5 SRM
7.0 pre-boil, 5.5 gallons into Fermentor

90 Min Boil

4.125 lbs Pilsner
3.375 lbs Munich Light
0.6875 lbs CaraMunich II
0.6875 lbs Carafa III
0.125 lbs Dextrose (ABV tweak, not Reinheitsgebot!!!)

1.33 oz Hallertau Mittlefruh @ 60 min
1.0 oz Hallertau Mittlefruh @ 20 min

Mash profile:
80F dough in
120F protein rest 20 min
138F 20 min
148F 150 min
154F 30 min
sag back to 48F 30 min

W34/70 quickie starter (run off some wort, place in Erlenmeyer flask on stirplate all day, 2 packs W34/70) chill overnight.
Decant starter beer, pitch the next morning at 48F. Oxygenate.
Ferment at 50F
D-rest at 66F, transfer to keg at 66F
Drop keg temp to 34F
Lager as long as you can wait. Mine 5 months, turned out TERRIFIC!
 
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tennesseean_87

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Use dehusked dark grain and cold steep overnight the day before brewing.
I love this even for stouts. Bump up towards 13% roasted malts with a mix of choc, RB, and carafa malts, but cold steep in strike water overnight for a really smooth chocolatey taste.

For your lager, don't use the RB, and just dehusked carafa. It'll have a smoother and less intense roast character for the same amount of malt.
 
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