School me on hop additions

[NTOLERANCE]

I read a few different opinions on hop additions.

Some of the recipes I have made from scratch that I thought would have good hop flavor, and aroma didnt. Hop presence was there, just bitter and no aroma. Even though I have tried a few things, like frequent and late additions, I am missing something.

When I am making a recipe from scratch, that I am trying to get good flavor and aroma, I use the freshest leaf hops I can get.

I usually start adding the late additions 30 minutes into the boil. I space them out, watching my IBU's in beersmith,(I am usually running an ounce or more at 60 for general bittering depending in the recipe) and have tried varying times, 30 , 15 10 and 5 minutes, and well I am missing something.

I want a nice hoppy, centennial APA. NOt bitterness, but good aroma, and hop flavor.

SO submitted for your review,(I like Centennial) my lastest attempt.

American Pale Ale

8lbs US 2 row
2lbs Vienna
1lb 20L Crystal
.5ls Carapils

.5 Oz Centennial @ 60
.75 Centennial @ 15
.75 centennial @ 10
.75 Centennial @ 5
1.0 Centennial @ Flameout
1.0 Centennial Dry Hop

Slightly modified Ed Worts Pale Ale

S-23 or S-05 Depending on which I feel like doing. Probably S-05 in this case.

I want aroma and hop flavor.

42 IBU's, 1.062 SG 1.016 FG



Other things to consider.....

I have a cooler for a mash tun, and I do stove top AG 5 gallon batches. I have found that my MAX grain bill can weigh about 13-14 lbs, after that, efficency goes out the window. I am considering doing this batch all extract to simplify the process, so I can work out my hop issues.

Thoughts, suggestions or the third degree?

 

[homebrewer_99]

After your brew is done fermenting, you can do either an extended stay in the primary or rack to the secondary, you need to dry hop it for 7-10 days.

That's where the aroma hop attribute intensifies.

 

[Yooper]

That recipe looks solid. I'd love to make that! It should have a floral/citrus hops flavor and aroma. The only thing I would do is ditch the carapils. That's a crystal malt, and I think 1.5 pounds of crystal is too much in that grain bill.

You know, water chemisty can mess up hops flavor. What is your water like? If you have a low sulfate/chloride ratio, it means that your malty beers will be great, but you won't have the "crisp" hop flavor and bite.

I'd try something new. Maybe buy all RO water at the grocery store (they fill jugs at many of them for about $1.50 per 5 gallons), and add some salt additions like gypsum. It will also fix any residual alkalinity issues you may have. We can help you with the water, so don't worry about it if you decide to do it. I've found that working on my water was maybe the third best thing I did to improve my beer. (First was temperature control, second was pitching the correct amount of yeast)

 

[Zen_Brew]

+1 to what Yooper said on the hops. I think your additions look great for a finished product with a good flavor and floral hop component. If you are not getting these with that recipe the water would be one of my suspects. I am not familiar with wayer in the area you live in but other local brewers may chime in. Builing up from distilled or RO water, or then adding minerals going heavy on the gypsum may be the ticket for your problem.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

That recipe looks solid. I'd love to make that! It should have a floral/citrus hops flavor and aroma. The only thing I would do is ditch the carapils. That's a crystal malt, and I think 1.5 pounds of crystal is too much in that grain bill.

You know, water chemisty can mess up hops flavor. What is your water like? If you have a low sulfate/chloride ratio, it means that your malty beers will be great, but you won't have the "crisp" hop flavor and bite.

I'd try something new. Maybe buy all RO water at the grocery store (they fill jugs at many of them for about $1.50 per 5 gallons), and add some salt additions like gypsum. It will also fix any residual alkalinity issues you may have. We can help you with the water, so don't worry about it if you decide to do it. I've found that working on my water was maybe the third best thing I did to improve my beer. (First was temperature control, second was pitching the correct amount of yeast)

Oddly enough I have tried that, especially with lighter beers. havent added any salt though. I have tried all RO water, and half RO water, and 3/4 RO water.

My water here at the house is hard, kinda like suckling on a stalagtite (stalagmite? Which ever) I handnt thought of the gypsum in the RO water.

As far as the carapils, I usually use it for head retention. Seems to help. I know its not the perfrect solution for foam. I seemed to have better head with leaf hops as well.

BTW Yooper, I just got back from Silver City, Ontanogon, Copper Harbor, Iron mountain areas of the UP. Hiking in the Porkies in that heat was...well a chore, but the views were worth it. Fortunatly, chemically pure Lake Superior was chillin. Paddling the canoes on the Pine river was wonderful as well. Last year we hit Manistique, Paradise, Taq. Falls, Marquette, Munising, Pict. Rocks. This fall maybe Soo Locks.

Was it a bad thing to be thinking to myself... "Man, I shoulda brought a carboy and filled it with Lake Superior water for the next brew session" ??

 

[NTOLERANCE]

+1 to what Yooper said on the hops. I think your additions look great for a finished product with a good flavor and floral hop component. If you are not getting these with that recipe the water would be one of my suspects. I am not familiar with wayer in the area you live in but other local brewers may chime in. Builing up from distilled or RO water, or then adding minerals going heavy on the gypsum may be the ticket for your problem.

I am game, anyone want to give me a build up from 100% RO water?

 

[Yooper]

Oddly enough I have tried that, especially with lighter beers. havent added any salt though. I have tried all RO water, and half RO water, and 3/4 RO water.

My water here at the house is hard, kinda like suckling on a stalagtite (stalagmite? Which ever) I handnt thought of the gypsum in the RO water.

As far as the carapils, I usually use it for head retention. Seems to help. I know its not the perfrect solution for foam. I seemed to have better head with leaf hops as well.

BTW Yooper, I just got back from Silver City, Ontanogon, Copper Harbor, Iron mountain areas of the UP. Hiking in the Porkies in that heat was...well a chore, but the views were worth it. Fortunatly, chemically pure Lake Superior was chillin. Paddling the canoes on the Pine river was wonderful as well. Last year we hit Manistique, Paradise, Taq. Falls, Marquette, Munising, Pict. Rocks. This fall maybe Soo Locks.

Was it a bad thing to be thinking to myself... "Man, I shoulda brought a carboy and filled it with Lake Superior water for the next brew session" ??

You should have stopped here for a beer...............I was on your way.

Well, the RO water is a good thing but remember it has nothing in it. So, even though you reduced the alkalinity, you didn't have anything "good" in there either. You need calcium for the mash, and for the yeast. A beer made with 100% RO water (except for maybe a pilsner) wouldn't be good either. I had a water test done for $16 and it helped me so much. I now do a mix of tap and RO and add the appropriate salts (usually gypsum and/or calcium chloride) in almost all of my beers. The only good beer I can make with 100% tap water at my house is a stout.

About the carapils- if you must use it, how about reducing the other crystal malt then? Sometimes a beer with too much crystal (and you have what? 14%) can cover the flavor of the hops too.

 

[daveooph131]

Interesting topic on the water....not to hijack the thread, but can I get some help on this?

I currently, use bottled spring water from Kroger. My hoppy beer is great, malty isn't bad, but they def. take longer to mature. Should I stick with this spring water or try RO filtered water. Is there a significant cost issue? How about taste? I spend about .88 cents per gallon and usually buy 7 gallons for my brew day. I am not terribly concerned about the price, but if flavor remains constant and RO water saves $ then that would be good.

 

[rexbanner]

Try making a hop tea. Bring a quart or so of water to a boil for fifteen to sterilize, then drop to around 180 and add your aroma hops (use pellets). Mix in a sanitized french press and let steep for five minutes. Then pour into your keg or bottling bucket.

I think the consensus seems to be that this adds a little more aroma, but it dissipates faster. I read the thread a long time ago though so I could be wrong. All I know is that it's worked very well for me, and that I drink the beer fast enough so that I have not noticed any dissipation. However, I mostly prefer it because pellets are cheaper, don't soak up as much beer, and you can keep doing this over and over if your beer doesn't taste good after one infusion.

 

[Yooper]

I am game, anyone want to give me a build up from 100% RO water?

Yes! I recommend using this spreadsheet: http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ from this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-adjustment-spreadsheet-135095/

Bobby M has a "how to" on this spreadsheet that helped me with doing the adjustments. It's pretty easy, really.

If you look at your recipe, you'll want to "match" your SRM and either the beer is malty, bitter, balanced, etc, at the bottom. That should get you started easily!

 

[samc]

http://brewery.org/library/wchmprimer.html

The one I mostly use: Burton Pale Ale -- A toned-down, "idealized" profile. Enough sulphate to bring out the hops without overdoing it. Low alkalinity helps ensure proper mash pH. Model: Moshers 'Ideal Pale Ale". 1 gram baking soda, 1 gram canning salt, 3.5 grams Epsom salt, 9 grams gypsum. Ca=111, SO4=337, Mg=18, Na=35, Cl=32, CO3=38, Hardness=352, Alkalinity=31.


Do the above and then if it is not enough consider adding Gypsum in the boil kettle as well.

 

[bovineblitz]

Yes! I recommend using this spreadsheet: http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ from this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-adjustment-spreadsheet-135095/

Bobby M has a "how to" on this spreadsheet that helped me with doing the adjustments. It's pretty easy, really.

If you look at your recipe, you'll want to "match" your SRM and either the beer is malty, bitter, balanced, etc, at the bottom. That should get you started easily!

Thanks to this I realized that my water suits 'very malty' beers... which explains why my hops are a bit dull, a very sad thing for a hophead.

Once again, HBT is the best Can't wait to apply this new knowledge to my upcoming IPA

 

[NTOLERANCE]

Alright, I have "Made" my own water.

8lbs 2 row
24 oz Vienna
1 lbs Victory
1 lbs 20L

.5 Oz Centennial @ 60
.75 Centennial @ 15
.75 centennial @ 10
.75 Centennial @ 5
1.0 Centennial @ Flameout
Safale Ale 05

1 oz Centennial will go into the secondary.

I used 6 Gallons RO water and 2 gallons Tap water, 1 gm gypsum and 1 gm Sea salt. According to the online tool Yooper posted, should be a good profile.

Looked good, hydro sample tasted good, and it smelled awesome.

I love centennial. 2 Hearted Ale is my fave beer of all time, and I compare ALL IPAs to it.

Thanks for all the water help, we shall see how it turns out.