Saving wort for later?

[thejuanald]

So I've decided to try and make a wheat beer, and my fiancee wants me to add some fruit (peach puree) to the wheat beer.

I was thinking, why not just double the size of the batch to 10 gallons and have half go to secondary with the peach puree and the other half just leave in primary. My mash tun should be able to easily support that and I have 2 6.5 gallon carboys and a 5 gallon. The problems are:

-I only have an 8 gallon boil kettle
-I just made a temp controller, and since it is cold here, I have my fermwrap attached to it and haven't yet gotten a chest freezer for the warmer months.

So my questions are, would it be at all feasible to mash enough 10 gallons, then drain and split it in half for two boils that have a 5 gallon end point? Would there be an issue with the wort of the second boil just hanging around while I boil the first half and cool it to pitching temps?

Also, since I only have the one heater (and thermowell), would the post boil wort of the second half still be viable after I ferment the first batch if I just place it in the carboy and don't pitch yeast for awhile?

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I should build a box to heat both fermenters at the same time. Or maybe just do two separate batches. I'd rather not split a 5 gallon batch into two 2.5 gallon batches. Hmmm.

 

[danath34]

What you're talking about certainly IS possible. However I would be inclined to say you would want to do a mashout step to stop all enzyme activity, so the flavor and body between the two will be as close to the same as possible. If you don't, you'll get enzyme activity continuing for the second batch of wort as it sits waiting for your burner to be free.

However, if it were me, I would make it easier on myself and do two brew days, a week apart. This will solve your fermentation chamber issue as well. Weekend 1 - brew the peach wheat beer, let it go in primary until the next weekend, at which point you brew the regular wheat beer, peach goes to secondary and you can bring it inside to the warmer temps of your house to do its thing, and the second batch can sit in temp controlled primary.

The temperature after primary fermentation isn't nearly as important, and there's nothing wrong with letting it warm to room temp. As a bonus, it'll condition a bit faster at the warmer temp anyway. This is all assuming you don't keep your house hot, up in the 80's, but I'm not confident that would have a drastic effect either once fermentation is done.

 

[mfgann]

The option I'm thinking of doing with the Hefeweizen I have in the fermenter is flavor extracts. I plan on bottling at least half with plain Hefeweizen and adding raspberry extract to the rest before bottling. I think you can even add it to bottles as you open them

Good luck!

edit:
You can find Peach Extract here. from what I've gathered about 2 oz. to 5 gal. will give you a decent start.

 

[thejuanald]

What you're talking about certainly IS possible. However I would be inclined to say you would want to do a mashout step to stop all enzyme activity, so the flavor and body between the two will be as close to the same as possible. If you don't, you'll get enzyme activity continuing for the second batch of wort as it sits waiting for your burner to be free.

However, if it were me, I would make it easier on myself and do two brew days, a week apart. This will solve your fermentation chamber issue as well. Weekend 1 - brew the peach wheat beer, let it go in primary until the next weekend, at which point you brew the regular wheat beer, peach goes to secondary and you can bring it inside to the warmer temps of your house to do its thing, and the second batch can sit in temp controlled primary.

The temperature after primary fermentation isn't nearly as important, and there's nothing wrong with letting it warm to room temp. As a bonus, it'll condition a bit faster at the warmer temp anyway. This is all assuming you don't keep your house hot, up in the 80's, but I'm not confident that would have a drastic effect either once fermentation is done.

Yeah, I was thinking of doing a mash out. Then, as I was typing it out, I realized it would end up being convoluted and it would just be easier to do two brew days. Thanks. 1 week does seem short though in primary. When I do like a dry hop, I usually wait at least two weeks. Is there a reason for not fermenting as long in primary when it comes to fruit?

The option I'm thinking of doing with the Hefeweizen I have in the fermenter is flavor extracts. I plan on bottling at least half with plain Hefeweizen and adding raspberry extract to the rest before bottling. I think you can even add it to bottles as you open them

Good luck!

edit:
You can find Peach Extract here. from what I've gathered about 2 oz. to 5 gal. will give you a decent start.

Awesome, thanks for the link!

Also, I have a question about timing. I've seen most recipes adding the fruit (usually in a puree or even actual fruit) into the secondary, but I've also seen some recipes call for adding the fruit puree at flameout right after the boil. Why is that? It seems like you'd get almost no flavor of the fruit out of that.

 

[danath34]

Yeah, I was thinking of doing a mash out. Then, as I was typing it out, I realized it would end up being convoluted and it would just be easier to do two brew days. Thanks. 1 week does seem short though in primary. When I do like a dry hop, I usually wait at least two weeks. Is there a reason for not fermenting as long in primary when it comes to fruit?

When dry hopping, I think 10 days is on the upper end of what most people do, because you're going to want to get it packaged asap once you have the flavor/aroma extracted. If not, it fades.

As far as a week being too short, this is debatable. I said a week because you're really only waiting for fermentation to be done so you don't stall it by transferring off the yeast cake. You will usually hit FG by that time, assuming its not a big beer. After its done, the yeast work to condition the beer. There will still be enough left in suspension after a week. And by adding peach, you're going to be adding sugar and will start fermentation again in a true secondary. That being said, you don't even really need the secondary, you can just move the fermenter to a warmer area, and add the peaches directly.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would stagger the 2 brews a week apart. After a week to 2 weeks, rack the first into a secondary on top of your fruit puree, Save half the yeast cake in a mason jar if you're into that kinda thing, and pitch the new batch on top of the half left behind in the primary. With extremely good sanitation practices, you can leave the yeast cake in the primary for a few days (1-3) until you're ready to brew the 2nd half. Leave a little beer on top of the cake if you do so. Then seal it up.

I'm not sure if mashing out is all that necessary if you were to do a double batch. It is more important to lauter the whole 12 gallons as the runnings need to be mixed so you end up with 2 vats of the exact same wort.

Unless you BIAB, have some rice hulls ready to add to your mash. Wheat is sticky.

Beware of bottles of flavor extracts, they can taste very artificial, quickly. A little bit to enhance the pure fruit puree is fine, but it is easy to overdo. When I test flavor extract additions, I add half of what I think is enough, and am very conservative about what's "enough." Palate fatigue sets in immediately. Have a 2nd opinion from someone who did not taste it yet, before committing to spike the whole batch.

Added:
Do not boil your fruit puree (or your flavor extracts). It destroys the flavor. Then the primary fermentation strips out whatever goodness is left.

 

[thejuanald]

When dry hopping, I think 10 days is on the upper end of what most people do, because you're going to want to get it packaged asap once you have the flavor/aroma extracted. If not, it fades.

As far as a week being too short, this is debatable. I said a week because you're really only waiting for fermentation to be done so you don't stall it by transferring off the yeast cake. You will usually hit FG by that time, assuming its not a big beer. After its done, the yeast work to condition the beer. There will still be enough left in suspension after a week. And by adding peach, you're going to be adding sugar and will start fermentation again in a true secondary. That being said, you don't even really need the secondary, you can just move the fermenter to a warmer area, and add the peaches directly.

Sorry, I meant I wait two weeks in primary before dry hopping. Yeah, I guess I've never really done a smaller beer (one that wasn't at least 7%) so a wheat beer would probably go much quicker, especially with a good starter.

I've been thinking about getting rid of secondary altogether for when I dry hop, so maybe I could try starting this with the fruit.

Also, thank you very much, everyone for the great, detailed help.

 

[thejuanald]

I would stagger the 2 brews a week apart. After a week to 2 weeks, rack the first into a secondary on top of your fruit puree, Save half the yeast cake in a mason jar if you're into that kinda thing, and pitch the new batch on top of the half left behind in the primary. With extremely good sanitation practices, you can leave the yeast cake in the primary for a few days (1-3) until you're ready to brew the 2nd half. Leave a little beer on top of the cake if you do so. Then seal it up.

I'm not sure if mashing out is all that necessary if you were to do a double batch. It is more important to lauter the whole 12 gallons as the runnings need to be mixed so you end up with 2 vats of the exact same wort.

Unless you BIAB, have some rice hulls ready to add to your mash. Wheat is sticky.

Beware of bottles of flavor extracts, they can taste very artificial, quickly. A little bit to enhance the pure fruit puree is fine, but it is easy to overdo. When I test flavor extract additions, I add half of what I think is enough, and am very conservative about what's "enough." Palate fatigue sets in immediately. Have a 2nd opinion from someone who did not taste it yet, before committing to spike the whole batch.

Added:
Do not boil your fruit puree (or your flavor extracts). It destroys the flavor. Then the primary fermentation strips out whatever goodness is left.

Awesome advice. I'm definitely going to try racking onto the previous yeast cake. I am wary of flavor extracts, I think I will stick with whole fruit puree as much as possible. Thanks again!