Sasion Dupont in primary very long - should I bother with secondary?

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rockout

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I put the wort into primary July 20th - and then had to go on a long road trip for work that started a few days after and didn't get back till yesterday. Before I left, fermentation was some of the most active I've ever seen (going by the bubbles in the airlock) and it slowed down some but was still going when I left.

Of course, now it's been over three weeks in primary. It's not bubbling at all anymore and I have yet to take a hydrometer reading. One helpful gent when I was preparing this brew told me he usually didn't go to a secondary with a Saison, others disagreed. What should I do at this point?

Thanks.
 

TheWarmth

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I'm working on a saison with a friend right now, too. Ours has only been in primary for a little over a week, but we're planning on moving it to a secondary and possibly adding something for flavor. We're just not sure what would be good options to add for flavoring. Of course, I'm also interested to hear what anyone has to say about using a secondary for a saison.
 

KENfromMI

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Just finished a saison that was in primary for two weeks, stopped fermenting after a week for 3 days then kicked back up so I let it go. Got busy and it sat in the secondary for four weeks with some additional corriander and paradise seed besides what I boiled in it. Tastes great after two weeks in the bottle and hoping it gets better. I used orange peel, coriander, paradise seed, honey etc, Ken
 

TheWarmth

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Ken, would you mind giving me more specific details on how you introduced the orange peel, coriander, paradise seed and honey to the secondary? You could PM me or just post it here. Rockout, I don't mean to hijack your thread ... sorry.
 
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rockout

rockout

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No problem, I figured it might take some time to find someone who could answer what's really my only questions:

What are the benefits/detriments to racking to secondary after 3 weeks in the primary? or should I just go ahead and bottle now?
 

KENfromMI

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Sorry I wasnt more specific, The honey was used in the boil along with orange peel, coriander and paradise seeds, then when i racked it to the secondary I added more of the coriander and paradise seeds. It went a little something like this.
7.2lbs LME, 1lb of Honey
8oz aromatic malt
8hbu northdown
3hbu styrian golding aroma
1oz orange peel (dried)
1oz coriander
2gm paradise seeds
Wyeast 3724 white labs saison
steeped grains added malt and honey, northdown hops,45 min boil added 1oz orange peel, 1/2 coriander and 1/2 paradise seeds 10minute boil, added irish moss and styrian hops 5 min boil
when racking to secondary added the other 1/2 or coriander and paradise seeds, they recommended 7 days but i got busy and it tastes great so far, just wish it had a little more orange kick, going to use fresh peels next time instead of dried.
 

Kai

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I wouldn't bother with the secondary. If your OG was under 1.060, and you've roughly hit your FG, you're good to bottle anytime. No hurry though, the yeast won't mind a chance to clean up. You could leave it in primary another couple weeks without ill effect. Mine was in primary for about three months on the yeast, and it's good.
 

shertz

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I would check FG and see where it's at. I think Saison's should be pretty dry so you really want it to be low. I have one I brewed on Sunday fermenting away and I have no plans for a secondary. Of course, I am fermenting at 68 for 2 days and then adding 1-2 degrees or more a day till I get to 80. Probably let it go for 2 weeks and start checking FG. Like to see it at 1.008.
 
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rockout

rockout

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Well, I checked the gravity today and it's at 1.022 - a bit high but then again, our measured OG was 1.082, also a bit higher than what the recipe was predicting (1.065).

I threw it in the secondary and for now plan to keep it at room temp until it's done fermenting. Seems like fermentation is still active because the airlock is bubbling away - not violently like it did in the primary for 2 days, but steadily, every minute or so a few bubbles pop their way through.
 

Tripod

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Of course, I am fermenting at 68 for 2 days and then adding 1-2 degrees or more a day till I get to 80...
Noobie question: What is the advantage of slowing raising the temp like that after fermentation? What does that do and is it a step I should take for all batches or is it specific to certain styles of beer?

-Tripod
 

CGengo

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There are a couple reasons for raising the temp during a fermentation but it's not necessary for all styles (although most lagers require it). The most popular reason is a diacetyl rest. Diacetyl is a byproduct of yeasts that causes a buttered popcorn taste. To perform a diacetyl rest, the brewer needs to up the temperature to 75-78 degrees for a couple days towards teh end of fermentation to unburden the yeast so that they can clean up after themselves so to speak. The second reason to raise the temperature on a ferment is for beers that should finish very dry, like the poster's saison. Colder temperatures cause a slow but neutrally-flavored ferment. Some yeast styles, like saison yeast tend to give up before their work is done if the ferment is kept too cool, so brewers will raise the temp slowly throughout the ferment. That said, you don't want to perform the entire ferment at a high temperature because as the yeasts process the sugars they will be more likely to produce excessive esters and higher level alcohols.

In response to the poster's inquiry...once your saison hits a steady gravity you'll need to decide if it's done, 1.022 is way too high for saison. A saison should be finished very dry (FG between 1.002 and 1.012). If the yeasts do not get you there, you can add some dry champagne yeast to get the beer to attenuate a little further.
 

Tripod

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There are a couple reasons for raising the temp during a fermentation but it's not necessary for all styles (although most lagers require it). The most popular reason is a diacetyl rest. Diacetyl is a byproduct of yeasts that causes a buttered popcorn taste. To perform a diacetyl rest, the brewer needs to up the temperature to 75-78 degrees for a couple days towards teh end of fermentation to unburden the yeast so that they can clean up after themselves so to speak. The second reason to raise the temperature on a ferment is for beers that should finish very dry, like the poster's saison. Colder temperatures cause a slow but neutrally-flavored ferment. Some yeast styles, like saison yeast tend to give up before their work is done if the ferment is kept too cool, so brewers will raise the temp slowly throughout the ferment. That said, you don't want to perform the entire ferment at a high temperature because as the yeasts process the sugars they will be more likely to produce excessive esters and higher level alcohols.
Thank you CGenco for clearing that up for me. That makes a lot of sense. My apologies to the OP for hijacking/misdirecting the thread! :eek: The question popped up in my head so I asked....

-Tripod
 

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