Sanitizer - I think I found a nice alternative

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permo

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Mark 10 sanitizer for dair/milk operations. Non abbrasive and no rinse.

1 tbsp makes 2 gallons of sanitizer, 1 gallon of Mark 10 is about $15. Pretty much a years supplie or longer.

So I use oxyclean free for cleaning and mark 10 for sanitizing!


http://www.stearnspkg.com/all_tek/53tek.pdf
 

Catt22

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It may be a no-rinse sanitizer, but the spec sheet says it is lemon scented. IMO, it would be wiser to stick with Star-San. Star-San is very economical to use. I've been using the same large bottle of SS for more than a year and still have some left. Oxyclean is also a sanitizer, but it is not rated as such and it must be rinsed. IOW, it will kill surface bacteria very effectively. Others will disagree on that I am sure. I will state that this is only my lowly opinion, so no need to get into a big argument about it.
 
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permo

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It may be a no-rinse sanitizer, but the spec sheet says it is lemon scented. IMO, it would be wiser to stick with Star-San. Star-San is very economical to use. I've been using the same large bottle of SS for more than a year and still have some left. Oxyclean is also a sanitizer, but it is not rated as such and it must be rinsed. IOW, it will kill surface bacteria very effectively. Others will disagree on that I am sure. I will state that this is only my lowly opinion, so no need to get into a big argument about it.


I thought about using the oxiclean as well for sanitizing, but this stuff is just fine. Once you dilute this stuff to a working solution strength, you get no odor from it all...I took a big whiff of a bottle I opened at the store, and I am guessing that spec sheet is old, because it was essentially odorless.

I also found this while searching the web:


"we've covered this before, basically get some Star-San, or if you're in a semi-rural area and/or have access to a Farm/Fleet type place, Mark 10 is the dairy industry equivalent to Star-San, it's chemically similar, and you get 3x the quantity for the same price.... nice thing about Star-San is the built in measurer, you squeeze the bottle a bit to move up how much you need, then dump it into your water, and stir or shake a little..."

I am going to give it a shot, as I am sick of working with bleach. My buddy grew up on a dairy farm and they used the stuff, and the milk didn't taste like lemons.
 

RandomSF

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The ingredient statement and picture of the ingredient label from that PDF don't match up. The label says the active ingredients are quats and the statement says phosphoric acid. Their Web site supports the quats theory. If it really is quaternary ammonia, note that this is very effective against yeast, while Star-San is almost considered a yeast food. Quats will need very good rinsing.
 
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permo

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The ingredient statement and picture of the ingredient label from that PDF don't match up. The label says the active ingredients are quats and the statement says phosphoric acid. Their Web site supports the quats theory. If it really is quaternary ammonia, note that this is very effective against yeast, while Star-San is almost considered a yeast food. Quats will need very good rinsing.
double post...see below
 
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permo

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The ingredient statement and picture of the ingredient label from that PDF don't match up. The label says the active ingredients are quats and the statement says phosphoric acid. Their Web site supports the quats theory. If it really is quaternary ammonia, note that this is very effective against yeast, while Star-San is almost considered a yeast food. Quats will need very good rinsing.
I will see if it works or not, I am primarily concerned with sanitizing my kegs with it at this point......

I read the label on the bottle at home and it had two ingrediants in it I didn't remember ammonia...

sorry for the double post
 

RandomSF

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If you're right, you're probably good to go.

Stearns, on the other hand, need to get their marketing literature right. :)
 

Catt22

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The ingredient statement and picture of the ingredient label from that PDF don't match up. The label says the active ingredients are quats and the statement says phosphoric acid. Their Web site supports the quats theory. If it really is quaternary ammonia, note that this is very effective against yeast, while Star-San is almost considered a yeast food. Quats will need very good rinsing.
I noticed that too. If it's quaternary ammonium it should be rinsed which puts you back to square one regarding sanitizing. I've read some opinions on the quats possibly interfering with head retention. I think it is also recommended that it be allowed to air dry. Supposedly, quats are very effective on gram positive bacteria and not so much so on the gram negatives. I personally prefer to stick with a product that has a proven track record for home brewing use. As I mentioned above, Star-San is very economical to use and over the course of a year, we're talking about a very small bucks. Very, very small really.
 

RandomSF

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Star-San is very economical to use and over the course of a year, we're talking about a very small bucks. Very, very small really.
Completely agree about Star-San. Having said that, if this Stearns stuff is really phosphoric acid, it could be OK, since Star-San is phosphoric acid as active ingredient, too.
 
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permo

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I found this:

http://www.stearnspkg.com/msds/bulk/MARK_10_DAIRY_CLEANER_SANITIZER.pdf

says no fragarance and Phosphoric Acid as the ingrediant. I'll see what happens I guess, since I already bought it....FLeet Farm didn't cary starsan!

$$$ isn't the issue here, it is availability...I am kegging tonight and starsan is not availble in my town.

I sent stearns an email, we shall see what they say.
 

AiredAle

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Personally, I would avoid this sanitizer due to the quaternary ammonium salts in it. They are hard to rinse off surfaces, and could lead to headless beers. If you believe you can rinse it well enough then use it, but understand that rinsing with tap water can reintroduce bacteria to the rinsed surface.
 
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permo

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Personally, I would avoid this sanitizer due to the quaternary ammonium salts in it. They are hard to rinse off surfaces, and could lead to headless beers. If you believe you can rinse it well enough then use it, but understand that rinsing with tap water can reintroduce bacteria to the rinsed surface.
Headless beers would be terrible! We can't have that. I don't want to rinse with tap water, I was hoping for a rinse free sanitizer, looks like I will go with star san for my next batch of beer if this one is headless..
 

SumnerH

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The ingredient statement and picture of the ingredient label from that PDF don't match up. The label says the active ingredients are quats and the statement says phosphoric acid. Their Web site supports the quats theory. If it really is quaternary ammonia, note that this is very effective against yeast, while Star-San is almost considered a yeast food
Star-San is very effective against yeast as well. It had better be, since killing off wild yeast is one of the more important functions of a sanitizer.

It's only when the pH rises (basically after you've dumped it out and diluted it down with wort/beer) that it becomes yeast-friendly (and also ineffective against bacteria).
 

jay4e

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i would trust the msds sheet, its required to be accurate by law. though calling and checking its the correct sheet you are using is a good idea.
 
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permo

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i would trust the msds sheet, its required to be accurate by law. though calling and checking its the correct sheet you are using is a good idea.
I called, it is not lemon scented and does contain small amounts of "QUATS". However, Jim stated that the product is used by quite a few homebrewers....
 

riromero

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I've been using this "gentle wound spray" for a couple of years as a cheap and plentiful sanitizer.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...und-care/dionne-gentle-iodine-1-1-gal-2209723

The dilution is 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons, so at $15/gallon you're getting close to a lifetime supply. Plus, the Tractor Supply store is just a couple miles away so no shipping charges.


Mark 10 sanitizer for dair/milk operations. Non abbrasive and no rinse.

1 tbsp makes 2 gallons of sanitizer, 1 gallon of Mark 10 is about $15. Pretty much a years supplie or longer.

So I use oxyclean free for cleaning and mark 10 for sanitizing!


http://www.stearnspkg.com/all_tek/53tek.pdf
 

bull8042

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snip.... However, Jim stated that the product is used by quite a few homebrewers....
Got no dog in this fight, BUT - Quite a few homebrewers bottle their beer after only 7 days in the primary according to the directions on the can. I don't think placing a lot credence in this comment is the best advice.
Just a thought and obviously just my opinion.
 
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permo

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Got no dog in this fight, BUT - Quite a few homebrewers bottle their beer after only 7 days in the primary according to the directions on the can. I don't think placing a lot credence in this comment is the best advice.
Just a thought and obviously just my opinion.
You are certainly correct. I have been using the product and did some simple tests and have found no reduction in the head retention of my beers and no off flavors so far. I have used it to sanitize one keg and all the associated racking equipment and that beer is just fine. I also sprayed a glass down with it and poured a beer in, had plenty of foam and i couldn't taste the sanitizer....

I think I have a decent sanitizer, for what it's worth this appears to be a viable option.
 
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permo

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Just an update. I have been using this sanitizer for quite some time, and have two beers kegged that I used this as the only sanitizer for the entire process. Both beers are great and have no off flavors or head retention issues. Looks like we have a winner!
 

chefmike

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I have been using this sanitizer for quite some time,
20 days is "quite some time"? :fro:

glad it is working out for you.

Reminds me... I need to buy another 8 oz bottle of star san. That one from 2008 is almost out. Probably need more this coming January. :D
 
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permo

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20 days is "quite some time"? :fro:

glad it is working out for you.

Reminds me... I need to buy another 8 oz bottle of star san. That one from 2008 is almost out. Probably need more this coming January. :D
I should have been more clear, I have been using it for a lot of sanitizing and haven't had any issues. 20 days sure isn't quite some time, but two batches and no problems isn't so bad.

I bought a gallon of this stuff, last sanitizer I will ever have to buy.
 

lamarguy

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For the quat detractors in this thread, have you actually researched or used a quat sanitizer? Sounds like the answer is "no". :rolleyes:

Quats are very effective against a wide variety of bacteria and leave a thin film on the surface for long-term sanitation. Quat sanitizers are widely used in the food industry in no-rinse applications because they're very effective and inexpensive. ;)

I apply a no-rinse quat solution to all of my kegs and fittings after cleaning. Using a quat allows me to store the kegs and fittings "wet" without fear of surface attack (e.g., acid sanitizer like StarSan) or undesirable bacteria/mold growth.
 
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permo

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For the quat detractors in this thread, have you actually researched or used a quat sanitizer? Sounds like the answer is "no". :rolleyes:

Quats are very effective against a wide variety of bacteria and leave a thin film on the surface for long-term sanitation. Quat sanitizers are widely used in the food industry in no-rinse applications because they're very effective and inexpensive. ;)

I apply a no-rinse quat solution to all of my kegs and fittings after cleaning. Using a quat allows me to store the kegs and fittings "wet" without fear of surface attack (e.g., acid sanitizer like StarSan) or undesirable bacteria/mold growth.
I spray my kegs down for storage, and after I clean a beer bottle I spray some in before storage as well. The big thing is that this has allowed me ditch bleach, and thus make SWMBO very happy as I am not ruining my clothes and our towels and rags anymore!
 

JoMarky

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20 days is "quite some time"? :fro:

glad it is working out for you.

Reminds me... I need to buy another 8 oz bottle of star san. That one from 2008 is almost out. Probably need more this coming January. :D
20 days seems like a reasonable amount of time to see if it affects head retention. You would think that if it was going to do anything, it would affect the beer from the first draw.

20 days certainly couldn't be considered enough time to test its sanitary abilities, but that doesn't seem to be in question.
 

Redbeard5289

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permo,

Do you have an update to working with Stearns Mark 10 Dairy Cleaner Sanitizer? Good/Bad/Otherwise?

I saw this today product today while going through FleetFarm and was hit with the idea of using this as a no-rinse sanitizer for homebrewing.

Just curious how this is working out for you...

Redbeard5289
 
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permo

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I am still using it and I have had no infections in brewery since I switched and I have had no head retention or flavor issues. I use it as a sanitzer for everything, the jug I bought at fleet farm will literally last a lifetime at 500 to 1 ratio of sanitzer to water. I have been making it a little more potent and rinsing after I spray it down...works great.
 

broadbill

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For the quat detractors in this thread, have you actually researched or used a quat sanitizer? Sounds like the answer is "no". :rolleyes:

Quats are very effective against a wide variety of bacteria and leave a thin film on the surface for long-term sanitation. Quat sanitizers are widely used in the food industry in no-rinse applications because they're very effective and inexpensive. ;)

I apply a no-rinse quat solution to all of my kegs and fittings after cleaning. Using a quat allows me to store the kegs and fittings "wet" without fear of surface attack (e.g., acid sanitizer like StarSan) or undesirable bacteria/mold growth.
Well, to be fair you have provided just as much evidence that quat sanitizers are OK for this application as the folks who are saying it isn't OK for this application (i.e. none).

I also don't have a dog in this fight, but maybe somebody could...oh, I dunno....post some actual data supporting their claims?

The only links I've seen thus far have been where to buy or the info sheet for the product in question.
 

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I'm pretty neutral. I use Star San and have been using it for several years, but quite a few times I've used a quat, no rinse sanitizer with no issues. I'm a restaurant manager who has run out of Star San on several occassions so I've just brought some quat home from work: no rinse, no head retention issues, no problems.
 

onthekeg

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I bought a gallon in 2009 from Fleet Farm and am still using it if anyone needs a data point. No problems at all here.
 
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permo

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I bought a gallon in 2009 from Fleet Farm and am still using it if anyone needs a data point. No problems at all here.
Funny, that is the exact same fleetfarm that I bought mine from.....:tank:
 
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permo

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Just to provide an update...four years later and this is still my sanitzer. 100+ batches of beer. No issues.
 

ncbrewer

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Just to provide an update...four years later and this is still my sanitzer. 100+ batches of beer. No issues.
I use Star San now. It's really aggravating to fill bottles because the foam makes it hard to see when it's full. I don't see anything in the description about foaming action - what is your experience?

Do you wipe down the fermenter with the sanitizer and leave it wet for a minute, or do you feel it's necessary to fill the fermenter with sanitizer?

Also, Charlie Talley has discussed contact time in a podcast - he stated that although the directions call for one minute contact time, only 30 seconds is needed for brewing. I'm assuming there is no information available about any reduction in contact time. Did you discuss this when you talked to the manufacturer?
 
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