Sanitize with hot wort from DME? (With Pics)

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GoodTruble

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I've read about (and used) a lot of different methods for sanitizing ingredients added in secondary (fruits, spices, nuts, etc).

But I've never read about simply boiling a small batch of DME and using that hot liquid to sanitize. (Such as - heat to 160F and soak addition for 5 minutes).

is there any obvious reason why this wouldn't work?

I was sanitizing toasted pecans (yes, I know the draw backs/warnings) in whiskey (yes, I know.....) when I realized I was going to need way more whiskey than I thought (and a lot more than I thought advisable). So I decided to just boil a cup of RO to 200F and mix in a cup of DME, let it cool to 160, and then pour that over/into the jar with the pecans and whiskey. The resulting smell (and taste) was great. I've already dumped it in (so no going back now), but I'm wondering if there is a problem or drawback to this method that I am missing......

....and now, the pics.......

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brewdude88

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I would be surprised if you run into infection. Toasting the pecans was probably plenty good to sanitize them. I personally would have saved the whiskey and DME! (Mixing nuts with a solvent or boiling hot liquid could bring out some pretty nasty bitterness, although I think your small amount of whiskey and wort under 160F is probably fine)

That being said, sanitization is a function of temperature vs time. The FDA and USDA put out a lot of good info on the subject of how long it takes to destroy 99.9% of spoilage and pathogenic organisms at a given temperature.
130F(~1 hour)
161F (~15 seconds)- temp for milk pasteurization
165F (basically instantaneous)
 

Rob2010SS

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Not sure what you put the pecans into, but we tried it with a brown ale once and it didn't go so well. There's a lot of oils in there that, depending on how long you roasted for, wont' come out. This resulted in turning the brown ale into a milky looking mess that was really unattractive. Ended up dumping and using extract flavoring. I had read after the fact that blanching the pecans is the way to go to prevent that, but there was mixed opinions on that so not sure, never attempted it again.
 

PCABrewing

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Not sure what you put the pecans into, but we tried it with a brown ale once and it didn't go so well. There's a lot of oils in there that, depending on how long you roasted for, wont' come out. This resulted in turning the brown ale into a milky looking mess that was really unattractive. Ended up dumping and using extract flavoring. I had read after the fact that blanching the pecans is the way to go to prevent that, but there was mixed opinions on that so not sure, never attempted it again.
Do you think something in there acted as an emulsifier to put the oils into suspension?
In that case even a hard cold-crash probably wouldn't have settled it out and if it did, it probably would have taken a bunch of flavor with it.
Interesting experiment.
 
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GoodTruble

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Not sure what you put the pecans into, but we tried it with a brown ale once and it didn't go so well. There's a lot of oils in there that, depending on how long you roasted for, wont' come out. This resulted in turning the brown ale into a milky looking mess that was really unattractive. Ended up dumping and using extract flavoring. I had read after the fact that blanching the pecans is the way to go to prevent that, but there was mixed opinions on that so not sure, never attempted it again.

Yes, it is a brown ale. And yes, I thoroughly read up on all the warnings for using actual pecans. I did it anyway because part of the mission statement was to use actual pecans from my friend's farm. Hopefully they roasted enough (triple roasted and 2 months in brown bags) to limit the oil seepage, but we'll see.

However, I just realized I forgot to add whirfloc to the boil. So, I'm curious to see how much it clears the next few days and then weigh my further options if needed. (May start another thread on that after reviewing old threads some more).

But for now/this thread, I just wanted to see if I was missing any downside to using DME around 150-160 to sanitize. I just hadn't seen it discussed in other threads despite being a somewhat obvious-seeming option.
 

Rob2010SS

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Do you think something in there acted as an emulsifier to put the oils into suspension?
In that case even a hard cold-crash probably wouldn't have settled it out and if it did, it probably would have taken a bunch of flavor with it.
Interesting experiment.

Yeah unsure really.. it's possible something did it, I'm just not smart enough to know what caused it. At the point of adding the pecans, the maple syrup wasn't in there so the only ingredients at that point were malts and hops and yeast. In my naive thinking, I bought a plate filter and tried that and it did absolutely nothing for that milky look.

Yes, it is a brown ale. And yes, I thoroughly read up on all the warnings for using actual pecans. I did it anyway because part of the mission statement was to use actual pecans from my friend's farm. Hopefully they roasted enough (triple roasted and 2 months in brown bags) to limit the oil seepage, but we'll see.

However, I just realized I forgot to add whirfloc to the boil. So, I'm curious to see how much it clears the next few days and then weigh my further options if needed. (May start another thread on that after reviewing old threads some more).

But for now/this thread, I just wanted to see if I was missing any downside to using DME around 150-160 to sanitize. I just hadn't seen it discussed in other threads despite being a somewhat obvious-seeming option.

Maybe you'll be OK. You let them rest a lot longer than I did. I roasted them and added them same day. I may have to steal your DME idea for sanitizing additions like that. It's a pretty nice idea actually!!

As far as clarifying, that would most likely be gelatin. The brulosophy method for gelatin has yet to fail me! Keep us posted how it comes out!
 
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GoodTruble

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Luckily the fermenters (fermzilla all-rounders) can hold pressure, making cold crashing relatively easy. So that may be the way to go. The recipe is also pretty dark, so crystal clear may not be as important. Will see. Fermentation seems to be finishing up now, and I may know in 2-3 days how well it is/isn't clearing up.
 
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GoodTruble

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Just a quick follow-up: The Pecan Ale turned out fine. I definitely saw the "milky" oil from the pecans that @Rob2010SS warned about. Luckily mine just floated on the surface, and I was using a floating dip tube that hung low enough to draw from under it. I skipped cold crashing specifically to avoid that milky oil potentially sinking and falling into suspension. The final kegged beer was clear enough (again, it was a darker recipe anyway) and still has good head retention despite pecans/oils.......

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Rob2010SS

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Just a quick follow-up: The Pecan Ale turned out fine. I definitely saw the "milky" oil from the pecans that @Rob2010SS warned about. Luckily mine just floated on the surface, and I was using a floating dip tube that hung low enough to draw from under it. I skipped cold crashing specifically to avoid that milky oil potentially sinking and falling into suspension. The final kegged beer was clear enough (again, it was a darker recipe anyway) and still has good head retention despite pecans/oils.......

View attachment 758437
Nice! Well done! So…how does it taste? It looks great man!! A pecan ale sounds pretty good right about now
 
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GoodTruble

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It's good. Next time I will go a tad lighter because it wound up dark brown/baby stout.

But totally good and you can taste the pecan. So minimal goals achieved.

I just drank 4 (not my usual consumption), so something is working. =c)
 

Stormcrow

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That really looks great. I was reading above and just wanted to say don't sweat the whirlfloc. I never use it and my beers clear up just fine eventually. I'm sure it is a great product, and I plan on trying it someday, but I still haven't got around to it.
 
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GoodTruble

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Yeah, the times I use whirfloc and don't, there isn't too much difference. I do subscribe to the theory that if you just let it sit an extra 7-10 days, the beer usually clears almost exactly the same amount. The other stuff just speeds it up.
 
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Rob2010SS

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It's good. Next time I will go a tad lighter because it wound up dark brown/baby stout.

But totally good and you can taste the pecan. So minimal goals achieved.

I just drank 4 (not my usual consumption), so something is working. =c)
It's dark but I think that's OK for the style. We do a brown ale every year and it's pretty dark as well (see below). Still within the style guidelines and I love it, so won't change it! Nice looking beer man!

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