Same batch, different water profiles?

[Rhumbline]

I'm just getting into all-grain. I got my water profile from Ward Labs and I'm wondering how much of an effect water chemistry actually plays.

Here's my thought. I do a ten gallon batch with tap water, unmodified. I split the batch into two five gallon batches and add whatever to get the water profile up to something more "ideal".

My question is, can I add the adjuncts after the boil, or at the very end after drawing off half the wort?

Thanks, just curious.

 

[Iseneye]

AJ often suggests adding a pinch of sulfate or chloride to your finished beers to see the effects. That way you're only sacrificing a beer as opposed to a whole batch. Start with a low mineral water, make beer, then play around with your finished beer.

 

[Yooper]

Here's my thought. I do a ten gallon batch with tap water, unmodified. I split the batch into two five gallon batches and add whatever to get the water profile up to something more "ideal".

My question is, can I add the adjuncts after the boil, or at the very end after drawing off half the wort?

Thanks, just curious.

In short, no. I mean you can add some sulfate or chloride of course, but the major advantage to knowing your water chemistry is to get to the proper mash pH. Also, sparging with low akalinity water (no matter what the beer style is) is important. So, by doing the adjustments after the mash, you aren't really manipulating anything to do with the mash pH. Adding some gypsum may or may not be noticeable to the finished batch, and the same with chloride.

 

[Rhumbline]

Excellent, thanks for clearing up the whole chemistry thing. I'll do two "similar" five gallon batches to see if I can discern any difference.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yep, what Yooper said. The main reason to mess with your water chemistry is mash pH, not necessarily flavor profiles. So you would have to add any minerals before the mash. According to Aj over in the technical threads the chloride/sulfide ratio idea isn't a good gauge for flavor building anyway. If you have any specific questions about how to adjust your water, I would ask Aj or Brun.

 

[Hopper5000]

why don't you post your profile and folks on here can help you out with it...

 

[Iseneye]

When you said you wanted to add adjuncts I assumed you meant you just wanted to muck around with the flavour profile. As the posters above have mentioned you also need to get the mash pH right but that is done before you have made the beer.

 

[Rhumbline]

why don't you post your profile and folks on here can help you out with it...

Happy to do so. this report is for the municipal water for Ormond Beach, FL zipcode 32174...

pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 217
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.36
Cations / Anions, me/L 3.1 / 3.2
ppm
Sodium, Na 43
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 13
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 58
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 1
Chloride, Cl 76
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 53
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 44
Total Phosphorus, P 0.26
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

Iseneye When you said you wanted to add adjuncts I assumed you meant you just wanted to muck around with the flavour profile. As the posters above have mentioned you also need to get the mash pH right but that is done before you have made the beer.

Exactly, I've got the Brun Water spreadsheet and have also been reading up on water chemistry and when I see something like "provides a sharper fuller edge to highly hopped beers, ideal concentration range is 0-350ppm" I just wonder what the difference is between 0 and 276.

I don't mind doing the work to optimize my water profile, but not if the difference is imperceptible.

 

[trentm]

I'm just getting into all-grain. I got my water profile from Ward Labs and I'm wondering how much of an effect water chemistry actually plays.

Here's my thought. I do a ten gallon batch with tap water, unmodified. I split the batch into two five gallon batches and add whatever to get the water profile up to something more "ideal".

My question is, can I add the adjuncts after the boil, or at the very end after drawing off half the wort?

Thanks, just curious.

I'm not a water expert but I think you could do this. But first, as others have said, you will need to get your mash pH right as this is most important. You have a pretty good water profile to work with. The alkalinity is manageable with a acid addition and your Calcium and Sulfate are a little low. So by only adding some gypsum you can get both to a nice level and you will have a good water profile for many types of beers. Now it seems you are interested in the effects of Sulfate on a hoppy beer. With an initial addition of 0.44 grams/gal of gypsum, your water profile will look like this: Ca-40, Mg-6, Na, 43, SO-68, and Cl-76. Now by adding 0.52 ml of 88% lactic acid per gallon, you will get a predicted mash pH of 5.4 (this is with a grain bill of only 2 row malt). Remember this a predicted mash pH and your actual results may vary. That's why it is so important to check the actual pH.

Now if you wanted to see the effects of additional sulfate. You could split your 10 gallon batch after the boil and add gypsum to your desired experimental level to 5 gallons and leave the other 5 gallons as a control. If you wanted to look at the effects of 200 ppm sulfate compared to the 68 in the control you could add gypsum at ~0.9 grams/gallon to the experimental batch.

Again I am not a water expert so perhaps others will give input on this method.

Below are some screen shots of Bru'n Water with some of these calculations.

 

[TheMadKing]

Your sodium content is suspiciously high. Do you use a water softener?

As for impacting the flavor with chloride or sulfate, that's where Aj recommends adding a small amount to the finished beer and seeing if it improves the flavor one way or the other (as others have posted I think)

 

[Rhumbline]

Your sodium content is suspiciously high. Do you use a water softener?

As for impacting the flavor with chloride or sulfate, that's where Aj recommends adding a small amount to the finished beer and seeing if it improves the flavor one way or the other (as others have posted I think)

No, no water softener, but I live about six feet above mean sea level, four miles from the ocean.

I like the idea of adding to the finished beer, didn't know if that would work.

Thanks,