Saison recipe critique and help....

[reddskinnfan]

So, this is my first attempt at a Saison.

I want it to be earthy, have some pepper character and have a pronounced lemon punch. As such, here is what I am thinking. Please give me advice, or a pat on the back. Both are welcome!


Lemon Pepper Saison (Category 16C):

Grain
16# - Rahr 2-row
2# - Weyermann Vienna
2# - Briess Rye
2# - Turbinado Sugar

Hops
1 oz - Sorachi Ace (10.4%) @ FWH
1 oz - Sorachi Ace (10.4%) @ 20 min
1 oz - Sorachi Ace (10.4%) @ Flameout
1 oz - Sorachi Ace (10.4%) @ DH for 7 days

Yeast
WLP565 - Belgian Saison I, double-stepped starter (2.5L first step; 3.5L second step) - Pro Brewer Pitch Rate of 1.25 billion cells / ml / degree plato

Other
5.2 Stabilizer - 2 tbsp (Mash)
Whirfloc - 2 tablets (15 min)
Green Peppercorn - 1 tbsp, crushed (5 min)

Stats
Mash Efficiency - 80%
Mash Temp - 148f
Mash Length - 75 min
Water:Grist Ratio - 1.25 qt/lb
Est. ABV - 7%
Est. SRM - 5
Est. OG - 1.065
Est. FG - 1.011
Est. IBU - 27.5
Boil Length - 60 min
Est. Pre-boil Volume: 12.75 g
Est. Post-boil Volume: 11.25 g
Est. Wort in Fermenter: 10.50 g
Est. Bottling/Kegging Volume: 10 g


So, let me know what you all think, please. Am I on target, or way off base?

 

[ArcticBrewer]

Recipe looks good, although I might consider dropping the sugar and peppercorn additions. WLP 565 should adequately dry things out (if you can keep temps high enough and are patient), and will definitely throw off some peppery phenolic notes.

 

[pjj2ba]

Hmmmm, earthy. I'd add some fuggles or willamette towards the end of the boil for that, and if you ferment on the cool side, that will help with the spicy.

Me personally, I would swap out the Munich for Vienna as that will keep it a bit lighter, and I think the Vienna flavors pair better with S.A.

I use S.A. in my saison and love it.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Hmmmm, earthy. I'd add some fuggles or willamette towards the end of the boil for that, and if you ferment on the cool side, that will help with the spicy.

Me personally, I would swap out the Munich for Vienna as that will keep it a bit lighter, and I think the Vienna flavors pair better with S.A.

I use S.A. in my saison and love it.

I was on the fence with Vienna and Munich. Munich will add some malty sweetness to it, for sure. But I am not sure if the Munich maltiness will complete or detract.

Do you really think Vienna would be a better way to go?

 

[chickypad]

If you're choosing one I think I'd go with the Vienna as well. Not using a pilsner base?

 

[pjj2ba]

Picture in your head, the sweetness of the munich with the lemon from the hops. I find munich has a richness to it, that I personally think is not the best match for lemon (or at least vienna is better). Kinda like a lemon cookie, they are typically pale, usually shortbread style cookies (other than the lemon bars) rather than something darker/richer.

Or perhaps picture mixing a german radler. Sprite/7up with beer. What kind of beer would you use? A helles/pils or an O'fest/Bock. if the former, go with vienna, if the latter, go with munich

 

[insanim8er]

I used EKG hops and wyeast 3711. I also added some lemon zest and raw wildflower honey.

It came out very complex. It's earthy and funky and quite fantastic.

I want to do a lighter version using sorachi ace.

 

[TheZymurgist]

I was on the fence with Vienna and Munich. Munich will add some malty sweetness to it, for sure. But I am not sure if the Munich maltiness will complete or detract.

Do you really think Vienna would be a better way to go?

I use Munich in my saison, and really like it. I think it leaves the perfect amount of residual sweetness. Although, I don't have any experience with Vienna, so I can't say what the difference would be.

Are you set on the WLP565? The Yeast Bay has some awesome Saison strains that I highly recommend checking out.

 

[gbarron]

I agree on using Pilsner as the base if possible. Otherwise I think it is good. You may consider adding Wyeast 3711 at the end if you have trouble finishing it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[reddskinnfan]

I am sticking with 2 row. Not a fan of Pils. Still stuck on the Vienna and Munch call. Will try and handful of each with some lemon zest when I get home to try and get an idea. the malts

 

[Marc77]

I don't know much about WLP565 but I've used the 3711 French Saison wyeast. If you let it ferment in the lower range you get a peppery character vs a sweeter/fruitier character at the higher range. Do you know if the 565 does the same?

I found this with some searching:
"I fermented this at 85 degrees consistently in the hot summer because my brew shop suggested it was the best option for the heat. OG was 1.060 but it went all the way to 1.001 and I was worried that it would be too dry. It went one month in primary and then racked to secondary onto pomegranate juice (12 oz). Nice tart, peppery complexity with something else... you can't describe it. So, be patient and give it at least 2 months if its hot in your fermentation area. Go longer if its cooler. I was amazed at the beauty of this beer. I kegged half and the remaining is in bottles to age. Right now my 2 month Farmhouse rocks after a hot day. Will see if bottle aged tastes different."

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp565-belgian-saison-i-yeast

 

[reddskinnfan]

I am fermenting on the high end based on similar reviews of the yeast.

 

[helibrewer]

I would drop the pH stabilizer and just use 1/4lb of acid malt instead, just substitute 1/4 lb acid malt for 1/4 lb of the 2-row. That pH stabilizer doesn't work.

 

[reddskinnfan]

I would drop the pH stabilizer and just use 1/4lb of acid malt instead, just substitute 1/4 lb acid malt for 1/4 lb of the 2-row. That pH stabilizer doesn't work.

I have found that it works with my water. I get a jump of about 5% mash efficiency when I use it.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Picture in your head, the sweetness of the munich with the lemon from the hops. I find munich has a richness to it, that I personally think is not the best match for lemon (or at least vienna is better). Kinda like a lemon cookie, they are typically pale, usually shortbread style cookies (other than the lemon bars) rather than something darker/richer.

Or perhaps picture mixing a german radler. Sprite/7up with beer. What kind of beer would you use? A helles/pils or an O'fest/Bock. if the former, go with vienna, if the latter, go with munich

I took your advice and used Vienna, after tasting it with a little lemon zest.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Decided to add a tbsp of lemon zest to this recipe with the tbsp of the green peppercorn I am adding.

I like pepper and lemon, so if I get a ton of those flavors in this beer, I am ok with that!