Saison & Brett

[Nick4228]

Hi All,

First time poster, long time reader...lol

I was reading last month's issue of BYO and was thinking of brewing the "Dark Winter Saison clone" recipe... My question has to do with pitching rates and a yeast starter. The relevent stats on the beer are an OG of 1.066, its a 5 gal batch, using a stir plate. They suggest (and i was planning on following) using WLP565 (Belgian Saison I) and WLP645 (Brettanomyces clausenii). I believe I once heard in one of the "Brew Strong" podcasts that Jamil suggested not using a starter for Brett cultures. So should I just make a starter for the Saison strain then pitch both starter and other yeast together, or is there another process you all would follow?

Thanks ahead of time!

 

[Calder]

Pitching low amounts of Brett stresses it out and helps to increase the Brett flavors. When using it as a secondary yeast, pitch low. If you ever use it as the primary yeast, you need higher pitching rates than normal.

 

[pericles]

Everything I've ever heard is to pitch brett without a starter and, consequently, that's how I've done it with good results.

That said, I don't really find the explanation I've heard for why we should pitch without a starter to be compelling. Saying you "want" to stress the brett to get the "brett characteristics" is like saying you "want" to stress the yeast to get the "yeast characteristics." Not every beer needs to scream horseblanket.

I think my next beer will involve a brett starter.

 

[Nick4228]

So if I was following the more "traditional thinking" should I make a starter for the saison yeast, because I need more cells but am staying away from bumping up the brett? And if so, should I make a smaller starter than I usually would?

 

[lostfish]

I would make a starter for the 565 as usual, add the Brett to the secondary and let it age for at LEAST 2-3 months to get a noticeable Brett character.

 

[dwarven_stout]

When I make my saison brett, I pitch a 1L starter of saison yeast, wait until fermentation starts, then pitch the brett without a starter. It turns out awesome (Charlie Papazian said so!)

 

[pericles]

I agree - I get good results without a starter. I just wonder if I couldn't get BETTER results. That's why I want to try it with a starter. I admit that I haven't done that before, so I don't know. And no-starter is DEFINITELY the conventional wisdom with brett, pedio, lacto, etc.

 

[dcp27]

Pitching low amounts of Brett stresses it out and helps to increase the Brett flavors. When using it as a secondary yeast, pitch low. If you ever use it as the primary yeast, you need higher pitching rates than normal.

+1, I find it much cleaner as the primary strain tho.

 

[dwarven_stout]

I agree - I get good results without a starter. I just wonder if I couldn't get BETTER results. That's why I want to try it with a starter. I admit that I haven't done that before, so I don't know. And no-starter is DEFINITELY the conventional wisdom with brett, pedio, lacto, etc.

Pitching a brett starter gives you a completely different beer. I really like some of the pure brett beers I've made, and I certainly recommend trying it. I use a huge starter, though- it's pretty much a lager pitch.

I think that you don't see people advising pedio and lacto starters because they're such a pain to do and not because it wouldn't be effective. It's hard to do because those bacteria are impeded or killed by oxygen, whereas yeast grows faster with oxygen. Therefore you can't use the traditional stirplate. What you do see is people recommending to repitch onto sour cakes (you see this especially with Flanders styles on Roeselare cakes) which is essentially the same thing as a starter.