Saison aged on pressed grape skins

[Tieren]

Would love some advice if anyone has experience with this.
I have about 2kg of pressed pinot noir grape skins that I am planning to age a saison on.
The saison is a pretty close clone of Saison Dupont.
How much grape skins and for how long do you think I should age a 5 gallon/19 litre batch for?
Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

You'll get quite a bit of tannin extraction, so I'd sample it every few weeks or so.
How much to use? Good question! 1 kg perhaps? Maybe all of it, but shorter time?

Just avoid any possible oxidation, so use a suitable vessel and flush that headspace with CO2.

 

[Tieren]

You'll get quite a bit of tannin extraction, so I'd sample it every few weeks or so.
How much to use? Good question! 1 kg perhaps? Maybe all of it, but shorter time?

Just avoid any possible oxidation, so use a suitable vessel and flush that headspace with CO2.

Thanks for the advice.
I think I'll just add all of it, let it age until I've got some flavour, aroma and colour and then transfer again to let it complete any further fermentation from the sugars and yeasts from the grape skins.
I'm hoping there might be something funky living on the skins!

 

[redllama]

According to the Milk the Funk Wiki it says 2-3 pounds/gallon. Doesn't list a time frame but I would think 6 weeks would be plenty. I would advise that you take gravity readings to make sure that gravity has stabilized if there ends up being something funky and wild on the skins

 

[IslandLizard]

According to the Milk the Funk Wiki it says 2-3 pounds/gallon. Doesn't list a time frame but I would think 6 weeks would be plenty. I would advise that you take gravity readings to make sure that gravity has stabilized if there ends up being something funky and wild on the skins

That's an excellent resource for all thing sour and wild. Using that much, huh? That's surprising, but I'd take their word for it.

There's always something wild living on those skins.

I have about 2kg of pressed pinot noir grape skins

Where do you have these stored? In the fridge?

In light of the MtF recommendation, that would be the minimum dosage for around 2 gallons of beer. Are you going to split the batch or just do the whole beer with them? Or get more skins...

A friend of mine was going to do skins, but ended up macerating the grapes then throwing the juice and all in that beer.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I can't answer your question, but I can add some information on grapes for your library.

Grappa, is an Italian liqueur made from the leftovers of a grape pressing, the skin, seeds, whatever pulp is left, etc. Even after distillation, the mouthfeel is somewhat tannic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappa

Raki, is a close cousin with much of the same attributes.

I've had both drinks (commercial and home distilled) in Greece (Ouzo too), Kosovo, Macedonia and Turkey.

 

[Tieren]

According to the Milk the Funk Wiki it says 2-3 pounds/gallon.

I believe that amount is based on whole grapes. I have pressed grapes (basically just skins and seeds with a little remaining sugars), so I'm a little more concerned about extracting tannins. I feel if using whole grapes, tannins would take longer to extract because of the available sugars for fermenation. But I could be very wrong.

There's always something wild living on those skins.


Where do you have these stored? In the fridge?

In light of the MtF recommendation, that would be the minimum dosage for around 2 gallons of beer. Are you going to split the batch or just do the whole beer with them? Or get more skins...

A friend of mine was going to do skins, but ended up macerating the grapes then throwing the juice and all in that beer.

I hope there might be something on the skins!

They are stored in the freezer and have been frozen since shortly after being juiced/crushed.

 

[IslandLizard]

I believe that amount is based on whole grapes. I have pressed grapes (basically just skins and seeds with a little remaining sugars), so I'm a little more concerned about extracting tannins. I feel if using whole grapes, tannins would take longer to extract because of the available sugars for fermenation. But I could be very wrong.

I hope there might be something on the skins!

They are stored in the freezer and have been frozen since shortly after being juiced/crushed.

Using whole grapes would make significant difference in the amount of skins they add to the mix. So 2-3 pounds of whole grapes sounds more in line with other fruit additions.

I mentioned the tannin extraction in my first reply.
You would probably extract the same amount of tannins if left on the grapes long enough. Not sure if increased alcohol content increases tannin extraction.
If you'd bag them, you can remove them any time. Otherwise you'll need to rack the beer off them when you've had enough extraction, then go for the long haul of turning it into yummy beer.

(Repeated) freezing/defrosting is used to reduce or eliminate wild yeasts and bugs in fresh fruit. You may have killed some of those, but I doubt you got them all.
The question is, were enough of the better, more interesting ones preserved? Only one way to find out. I would limit or prevent O2 exposure from the get go to prevent it turning into vinegar.

 

[Tieren]

Thanks for the advise everyone.

I'll let you know how it goes.