Saflager W-34/70 pitching rate question

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
W

Wrinkletusk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
70
Reaction score
29
Location
Edinburgh
Hi all,

I'm brewing a helles style brew tomorrow, and I've got w-34/70 to ferment it out. I'm not going with the traditional lagering ferm schedule as it'll interfere with my pipeline timings, so I'm going to ferment warm (http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/). I'm good for temperature control as I've got a fridge, an inkbird itc308, and a brewbucket with a thermowell which is all working as it should.

My question is regarding pitching rates. Mr Malty has recommended 352b cells for 19L of 1.050 wort, but I'm presuming this is based on a traditional cold fermentation schedule. Does anyone have information regarding lager yeast pitching rates for different fermentation temperatures? My googlefu is failing me on this one, because all I can find is "more yeast are needed for colder ferments". Would the opposite also be true (less yeast for warmer ferments)?
 
Since you are using the Brulosopher's experiment, I'd go with his rate. I'm quite sure he said how much he used.

When I have used that method (three times) I've always pitched at the standard lager rate
 
Timely thread. NGP w/3470 on deck tomorrow. I am pitching 2 packs directly into wort. I ran the numbers some time ago, and should be suffice even with some cell loss from the direct pitch. That being said, I would really be interested how a single pack @ 70F would do after reading the most recent xbmt.
 
Thanks for the replies! I just pitched 2 rehydrated packs after all. Good brewday, so I'll see how it goes. I'll report back.

10-03-16 Helles.jpg
 
I've always pitched 2 packs and had good results with 34/70. After the first fermentation I have always collected yeast and followed the mr malty calculator. Again, have had great results with this.
 
Please keep updated! According to Brulosopher, Safale W-34/70 is used by Russian River and Firestone. However, he did also note that this strain seems to get better after the 3rd or so generation.

I am tempted to do a black lager or baltic porter with this strain sometime.

Rock on!:mug:
 
OK. Life happens. 3YO went on the rampage yesterday and required Daddy intervention and could not refill propane. Brew suspended. That said, in the spirit of this thread (and being a consummate cheap SOB), I will brew with a single pack warm direct pitch and report back. I am BJCP and will be brutally honest about it.
 
Brewed a Munich Helles on Saturday, pitched warm 1 pack of 34/70, half inch krausen and consistent airlock activity at 24 hours. Dropping temp gradually to sub sixties then will raise it when airlock slows.
 
I see no need to drop the temp. I think the majority of the fusel production and nasty off flavor stuff is prior to and at beginning of ferment and cooling it will not fix it if it happens (hopefully it doesn't like in xbmt).

Propane filled, recipe ready, hopefully will brew tomorrow.
 
zwiller said:
I see no need to drop the temp. I think the majority of the fusel production and nasty off flavor stuff is prior to and at beginning of ferment and cooling it will not fix it if it happens (hopefully it doesn't like in xbmt).

Propane filled, recipe ready, hopefully will brew tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Maybe no need to drop from 60 to 55 it's probably no difference but it's what I find works for me
 
Yep, stick with what works for you. So, I take it you've done the single packet before? Pitched at 60F? I was kinda thinking that myself. 70F seems extremely high. Not looking to set a fermentation speed record. I don't even pitch my saisons that high...
 
Quick update... fermentation kicked off without a hitch within 24 hours, and rotten egg/sulphur smell was making itself known by 48 hours. Eggy smell now dissipating, and will start the ramp up to 21c tonight. Happy with it so far.
 
Thanks. You talking "slight sulfur smell" or "full blown baby diaper/you can smell it upstairs from the basement/wife is gonna freak out sulfur"? My wife is totally cool about my brewing except when that happens.
 
zwiller said:
Thanks. You talking "slight sulfur smell" or "full blown baby diaper/you can smell it upstairs from the basement/wife is gonna freak out sulfur"? My wife is totally cool about my brewing except when that happens.
Click to expand...

My 6th batch of 34/70 is fermenting now and no real sulfur odor at all...

But batch 5 was pitched on the entire yeast cake of from batch 4 and was fermenting strongly throwing off a ton of sulfur odor. (that beer was 8.15% ABV)

So, I believe that the rate of fermentation (and OG) has as a lot to do with how much rotten egg odor 34/70 produces.
 
zwiller said:
Thanks. You talking "slight sulfur smell" or "full blown baby diaper/you can smell it upstairs from the basement/wife is gonna freak out sulfur"? My wife is totally cool about my brewing except when that happens.
Click to expand...

Not as extreme as smelling it upstairs, but SWMBO was rather offended by the smell lingering in the hallway 10 minutes after I opened up the fermenting chamber (in a cupboard off the hallway).
 
I took the first gravity sample since brewing, and it's down to 1.012. Bumped temp up to 21c, and going to hold it there till Sunday morning. Having said that, there was no diacetyl detected in the sample, so just a wee encouragement for the yeast to finish off. Smells like lager instead of eggy farts, so I've got that going for me.
 
Brewed mine last night. All went pretty well considering I had not brewed in a while. Somehow managed to boil off 1/2G too much. Might top it off with boiled/distilled. Hit my numbers, that was cool.

The beer: 85pils/10flaked barley/5acid malt; short hochkurz step mash programme over direct fire; 15m at 145 and at 158 with raised mashout at end (for thermal mass losses to cooler tun). Distilled water with 2g gypsum and 2g CaCl aiming toward a mash pH of 5.2. Single batch sparge with distilled only. Mash and sparge went well considering 90% of the time I just infusion mash in the cooler. BTW do NOT mill flaked barley. Learned that the hard way...

Also managed to get a hopstand in. Been meaning to try one on a pils for a long time. IBU about 40, with 1oz saaz @ 15m and 2oz saaz 30m hopstand. Chilled to 60F and direct pitch/no rehydrate 1 packet as promised around 9pm last night and a little airlock activity this am but no krausen. Goal is to ferment as an ale. SOP for average gravity fare is 1 week ferment 1 week cold crash.
 
Plenty of airlock activity this am and there was krausen within 24 hours/last night. So all in all, looks very similar to a typical ale fermentation. To me, that is a good sign the cell count was doable.
 
My old friend sulfur showed up over the weekend. Contrary to popular belief I do not find this to be a sign of underpitching but just the opposite. My beers with sulfur usually end up better than typical. Plan to keep at fermentation temps until all sulfur dissipates. Another week me thinks.
 
Gravity at 1.012. Sulfur is mostly gone but still detectable. Just to confirm, the sulfur which occurred during fermentation was mild and very doable... Hydro sample was NICE and very promising. I do not detect any ill effects of elevated fermentation temps and/or low pitch rates. No higher alcohols/solvent/esters and very neutral. I think this is a game changer for me. On the fence whether to cold crash, carb, using CO2 to push the sulfur out or to just let it ride. It would be kinda cool to brag about a killer pils in 10 days grains to glass...
 
Good to hear it's worked out so far for ya, zwiller. My next batch will be with 1 rehydrated pack, see how that goes.

Beer is currently sitting at 4c, so gelatine time after I get home from work, then crash to 0c. Racking to keg on Monday. I'll report back when it's carbed up and ready for serving.
 
Decided to go fer it and crash cooled 3/24 to 30F hoping to rush to tap for Easter. No dice... Beer was very hazy and still is, which is unusual for me. Normally I don't need gelatine or fining on my ales. Curious if this is typical for this strain. I see conflicting info when searching.
 
I got a bit delayed in racking to keg, so just racked yesterday. 1.009 with a ph of 4.33. Currently burst carbing for 24 hours @ 30psi @ 4°C. Will post a photo of the final product in a few days.
 
1.009? Just noticed that Brulosopher's got down to 1.008. I was pretty happy with 1.012... Might have to wait a little longer to crash next time... Thanks for heads up guys! ;)

How's the clarity wrinkle?
 
I can't comment on the clarity just yet as I did a quasi "closed transfer" from the Brew Bucket into a purged corny. The last sample I took was before I hit it with gelatin, so I'll have to wait until it's carbed up and I've pulled a dirty pour or two from it.
 
I was also influenced by the 34/70 brulosophy xbmt. A few weeks ago I made a IPL (34/70) and a sister IPA (05) at the same time. Both were fermented at 62 ambient for 5 days and then 69 ambient for the rest of the time. On day 12 I cold crashed and fined with gelatin. By day 14 I was drinking both beers. No off flavors, both tasted great. I wanted to be sure however. I brought the lager to the brewery I work for. I had the brewmaster and my asst brewer co workers try the beer with out knowing the nature of the "lagering" they thought the beer tasted great, no off flavors!
 
Good stuff EndofLine. How much did you pitch, and what was the OG of the worts?

I have no complaints with the two pack pitch, but I need to tweak my recipe. Far too bready for a helles, as I used low colour Maris Otter as my base instead of pils. Next batch will be a 50/50 pils/low colour maris with one pack of W-34/70. I'll report back when it's underway.
 
About 1.055 og. 2 packets of 34/70 pitched on wort. Encouraged by the first "lager," I am now fermenting a bigger red "ale" with 34/70 at 65f. This time temp controlling the beer. Og is 1.075, 2 packets. The next lager I make ill try one packet hydrated.


If these beers turn out as well as I am hoping... 34/70 may become my new house "ale" strain lol
 
Kegged mine about 2 weeks ago. Still hazy. Me thinks this is non flocc'r and requires gelatine. Overall I think this is game changer for me. I have to laugh, haven't brewed a lager in so long that I really overdid the late additions in my NGP and it is a saaz bomb. That said, whirlpool additions were a real nice touch to this one.
 
I brewed the second version of my Helles on Monday, and it's happily fermenting away at 18c (64.4f). 5 gal, 1.043 (should have been 1.048, but this is my first brew in my new & bigger pot and got my volume calcs wrong), 5.43 mash ph, and 1 pack of W-34/70 rehydrated.

Will raise temp to 21c (69.8f) for a d-rest on Sunday, and then cold crash 2-3 days later if the FG is where it should be.

Granted my OG is lower than I had planned for, but I'm looking forward to see if 1 pack of 34/70 can get the job done.
 
I have used 34/70 fermented at 65 degrees and it worked great. Actually tasted cleaner than when I used it at 50 degrees before. I do find that it takes a while to clear for me, even with gelatin. However I will say that although you can ferment clean with this yeast at elevated temps, you still need to lager your beer for that crisp clean taste. My lagers start to shine about 3 weeks into being kegged.
 

Similar threads

oldschool
Who else uses 34/70 on the regular?
2
Replies
47
Views
4K
fluketamer
F
hilljack13
Another yeast pitch rate question
Replies
35
Views
797
ncbrewer
N
Jkrags
Light Lager Stuck Fermentation
Replies
11
Views
480
VikeMan
VikeMan
S
Fermenting at a higher temperature than yeast's recommendation
Replies
10
Views
1K
mac_1103
mac_1103
rolomo
Concerned about a fast ferment using Saflager W-34/70
Replies
12
Views
2K
rolomo
rolomo

Latest posts

Back
Top