Saflager 34/70

[csantoni]

I do not think that there is any connection between trub and diacetyl production.

You're probably correct. I can't remember everything I've read on the topic at this point. It's not something I consider a problem, it always dissipates if I give the yeast enough time. What I'm really after is clarity. I have had a few batches that just never seem to clear as much as I'd like and without exception, my best tasting beers have been the clearest.

Are you certain that it is in fact diacetyl when you think you're tasting diacetyl?

I'm fairly certain it is diacetyl. The flavor is there in almost every batch to one extent or another, often with the slickness in the mouth. Time fixes it, but there are definitely times when I've had a batch at FG for several days but waited to package until I couldn't taste the diacetyl anymore. I use a Spike Flex+ so I sometimes take small samples along the way because I'm curious about how things smell & taste at various stages of the process.

 

[Miraculix]

You're probably correct. I can't remember everything I've read on the topic at this point. It's not something I consider a problem, it always dissipates if I give the yeast enough time. What I'm really after is clarity. I have had a few batches that just never seem to clear as much as I'd like and without exception, my best tasting beers have been the clearest.


I'm fairly certain it is diacetyl. The flavor is there in almost every batch to one extent or another, often with the slickness in the mouth. Time fixes it, but there are definitely times when I've had a batch at FG for several days but waited to package until I couldn't taste the diacetyl anymore. I use a Spike Flex+ so I sometimes take small samples along the way because I'm curious about how things smell & taste at various stages of the process.

Also clarity of the beer is not connected to the amount of trub in the wort.

I totally agree that the clearer the beer, the better the taste, with the exception of certain styles and turbidity caused by chill haze, which does not have a taste. If there's yeast in suspension, it ruins the taste, the more yeast drops out, the better the taste.

But there's the point, it's not the trub, it's the yeast that causes this taste ruining turbidity.

There are other reasons, why clear wort might be desirable, but clearer beer is none of them.

 

[Conehead]

$9? Where are you?

In the land where everything is stupid expensive - Canada.

 

[Beermeister32]

Also clarity of the beer is not connected to the amount of trub in the wort

There’s an interesting experiment… My batches are 6 gallon - 5.25 goes into the carboy, the last gallon of kettle trub sludge goes into the gallon jug to ferment separately.

The one-gallon jug - Sometimes OK, sometimes weird, you get about 5 bottles to play around with.

Seems like these kettle trub jugs ferment out faster and clearer than the main batch. Weird.

 

[Miraculix]

There’s an interesting experiment… My batches are 6 gallon - 5.25 goes into the carboy, the last gallon of kettle trub sludge goes into the gallon jug to ferment separately.

The one-gallon jug - Sometimes OK, sometimes weird, you get about 5 bottles to play around with.

Seems like these kettle trub jugs ferment out faster and clearer than the main batch. Weird.

Nice experiment!

Faster fermentation happens due to more nutrients available.

I made a similar experiment once but not with the trub but with replacing part of the mash with regular oats. The oats batch fermented faster then the other. Here is some further info about this:

http://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/

 

[pfmeyer]

I’ve used 2 packets on batches up to a starting gravity of 1.072 with great results. I want to try 1 pack on lower gravity beers but figure I’d stick with what I know works for me. I usually pay between $5 and $6 per sachet.

 

[Steveruch]

In the land where everything is stupid expensive - Canada.

Have you done much shopping around? I see quite a big difference in price at different shops.

 

[bwible]

My club did a presentation last month on warm fermenting 34/70. They had beers from the same wort, one fermented at the tradional 50-55 degrees (F) and one that was fermented at room temp, 66-71 (F). Both were then aged cold. We were presented a triangle test as a group and an insignificant number out of a of very experienced group of brewers and beer judges could tell the difference.

I have one going now that I did right after that presentation. Warm fermented at cellar temp. My basement pretty much matches the 66-71 range. Very quick ferment from 1.050 to 1.012 in 3 days. I used one packet for a 5 gallon batch. Just sprinkled on top. No rehydration or anything fancy. Has been aging cold in the back of my kegerator for 3 weeks. I plan to keg it next week. Seems great so far.

One of the things presented was that the people at Fermentis say you do not need to aerate or oxygenate this yeast. They have that in their process.

 

[Beermeister32]

One of these days I’d like to try the “sprinkle on top” procedure with no O2. The thing is, brewing is this step by step refining of processes.

We’ve been told to “oxygenate well” for so long it somehow goes against convention. It’s hard to make yourself to do it - takes quite a bit of effort to produce a batch of beer. You think about those other past batches you suffered through (and drank anyway!)

If that batch came out weird, I’d be kicking myself for quite a while for not pulling out the O2 tank and carbonation stone setup.

 

[Miraculix]

One of these days I’d like to try the “sprinkle on top” procedure with no O2. The thing is, brewing is this step by step refining of processes.

We’ve been told to “oxygenate well” for so long it somehow goes against convention. It’s hard to make yourself to do it - takes quite a bit of effort to produce a batch of beer. You think about those other past batches you suffered through (and drank anyway!)

If that batch came out weird, I’d be kicking myself for quite a while for not pulling out the O2 tank and carbonation stone setup.

Just to encourage you a bit, I honestly oxygenated my wort not a single time since I started home brewing.

 

[bwible]

One of these days I’d like to try the “sprinkle on top” procedure with no O2. The thing is, brewing is this step by step refining of processes.

We’ve been told to “oxygenate well” for so long it somehow goes against convention. It’s hard to make yourself to do it - takes quite a bit of effort to produce a batch of beer. You think about those other past batches you suffered through (and drank anyway!)

If that batch came out weird, I’d be kicking myself for quite a while for not pulling out the O2 tank and carbonation stone setup.

I still put all my beers in “secondary” or settling carboy after primary is done. So I know what you mean. I always used liquid yeast. This might be the second time in 23 or 24 years of brewing I used dry yeast for beer. I’m excited to see the results.

 

[camonick]

Just to encourage you a bit, I honestly oxygenated my wort not a single time since I started home brewing.

Me neither, don't even have the equipment to do such a thing. I just assume splashing the wort into the fermenter is sufficient. I don't rehydrate either. Dry yeast isn't really supposed to need either step.

 

[Miraculix]

Me neither, don't even have the equipment to do such a thing. I just assume splashing the wort into the fermenter is sufficient. I don't rehydrate either. Dry yeast isn't really supposed to need either step.

I only rehydrate when making meads, using go ferm. But it's a completely different story, mead lacks nutrients, wort does not. For beer it goes straight into the fermenter!

 

[Oleson M.D.]

In decades of brewing going back to 1990, we added 02 to the wort exactly one time.

W34/70 yeast is good. Used it many times, even won gold medals with it. But our yeast of choice now is Diamond Lager. Much better than W34/70, in our experience.

 

[Miraculix]

In decades of brewing going back to 1990, we added 02 to the wort exactly one time.

W34/70 yeast is good. Used it many times, even won gold medals with it. But our yeast of choice now is Diamond Lager. Much better than W34/70, in our experience.

That one is on my list. Read good stuff about it, apparantly it also works well when fermented wam.

 

[TBA]

In decades of brewing going back to 1990, we added 02 to the wort exactly one time.

W34/70 yeast is good. Used it many times, even won gold medals with it. But our yeast of choice now is Diamond Lager. Much better than W34/70, in our experience.

I am so glad to hear you like Diamond Lager. I just got one to try. Do you rehydrate or oxygenate it? What is your temperature profile?

 

[Gusso]

Sounds like he doesn't oxygenate. I recently stopped and don't notice anything different. I should try Diamond.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I am so glad to hear you like Diamond Lager. I just got one to try. Do you rehydrate or oxygenate it? What is your temperature profile?

Direct pitch, only the first generation. We then harvest the yeast and re-use many, many times. Ferment temp is 48 F.
No O2 addition.
On the first pitch, two packets are used per 5 gallons.

 

[jtgoral]

I am so glad to hear you like Diamond Lager. I just got one to try. Do you rehydrate or oxygenate it? What is your temperature profile?

I use both yeasts with 1qt starter. No O2. I start fermentation ~60-65F and set a BrewJacket at 50F, which is achieved next morning. After 3 days I set at 55F, then after next 3 days at 60F and then 65F for 3+ days and then keg. No secondary. Last pack of yeast goes to 2qt starter. 1qt to fermenter, 2nd for harvesting and freezing 1:1 with solution of glycerine and water (25% : 75%)

 

[TBA]

I use both yeasts with 1qt starter. No O2. I start fermentation ~60-65F and set a BrewJacket at 50F, which is achieved next morning. After 3 days I set at 55F, then after next 3 days at 60F and then 65F for 3+ days and then keg. No secondary. Last pack of yeast goes to 2qt starter. 1qt to fermenter, 2nd for harvesting and freezing 1:1 with solution of glicerine and water (75% : 25%)

Thanks for the details. Do you use a centrifuge prior to freezing?

 

[jtgoral]

Thanks for the details. Do you use a centrifuge prior to freezing?

Yes, 15ml sterile from Amazon... the solution is 25% glycerine and 75% water. I fixed my post

 

[BaldApe]

After cold crash. I’m still experimenting with the timing of that and wanted to do it on the way down but had to wait so I did it after it was at 40F for a couple days. I use 1g per gallon in 2oz water per gallon. So for this batch, 3 gal, I used 3g gelatin in 6oz water. Process I used was boil water, let cool to room temp, sprinkle gelatin, let bloom 15 mins, heat slowly to 150F, add to beer.

In my experience, gelatin is mosty effective when the beer is as close to freezing as you can get it. I use it in English ales right at 0 C.

I'm on this thread because I'm using Saflager 34/70 for the first time, and was astonished that it has achieved 83% attenuation after only only 5 days. Looks like this may not be unusual, even at 14 C.

It's an American Light Lager to commemorate my late in-laws who were Coors Light drinkers. (and to see if I can brew a really clean flavorless beer)