Sabco vs conical pros and cons help!

[JCTM]

Hello I am about to make an investment on a fermenter and would like to get some info/help...my biggest concern is the capability to harvest/remove the yeast and use the same vessel as secondary/conditioning tank. Can someone pls help on how a sabco fermenter would compare to a to conical in this regard. Any additional pros and cons on one vs. the other would be great....
Cheers
JC

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

my biggest concern is the capability to harvest/remove the yeast and use the same vessel as secondary/conditioning tank.

I currently own both a sabco and conical and in my experience you would not be able to get as much of the yeast out of the sabco as you would be able to with a conical. That said, if the quoted statement is what is "most" important then I would go with a conical.

 

[dedhedjed]

i have a conical at home and use sabco's for pilot batches at the brewery where I work...if you're concerned with yeast harvesting and using one vessel for primary and secondary fermentation, go with the conical.

 

[SankePankey]

I have a quasi-Sabco.. (made by Synergybrew) same thing basically except that it actually has a bottom dump (on the bottom) and the unit is on legs and also has corny posts instead of ball valves.

Con:
There isn't really any way to get 'all' of the yeast out of the dish bottom without racking the beer off. I do tend to harvest the bulk of the yeast cake after racking. I can get a pitchable pint of yeast before racking, but a couple mason jars come out after the beer is gone (it's got no place to go but down) so, still totally sanitary. I have no problem with that given all the pros.

--- having said that, I don't know why you would want to rack 'ALL' the yeast.. every beer I do has an extended primary rather than a secondary. I have a 15g Corny as a secondary if I need it, but that's only for fruit, etc... You really won't get all of the yeast/trub out of a conical either. The stuff sticks to the walls.

4" top clamp - some folks make a big deal that you can't take the entire top off to clean the inside. If that's a problem for you, you might need to speak to Jenny. Not an issue for me- I can use a scrubby to clean the entire inside with my hand, or use my CIP (ever evolving) solution.

Pros:
PRESSURIZABLE- is way more important to me than ability to get allll the yeast out. Can do full natural carbonations with no need for a tank (or a bottle..). I have a blast doing it. Gives me giggles every time I take a gravity reading by just popping on a cobra tap. It can positively benefit the taste profile (cleaner), so better with the non-funky styles (belgian) of beer which I do closer to ambient pressures. This mimics the hydrostatic pressure in larger multi-barrel brew vessels, thus pushing appropriate fermentation temperature up a couple degrees (I think). Ever wonder why big breweries ferment at 72 when we do it at 66?

-No stupid large gasket to fool with.

-A little smaller.

-With all the ports on the top (except the bottom dump) it's actually more convenient to use a chest freezer as a ferm chamber rather than a fridge. I put my freezers on big casters so I never have to lift a full vessel (roll it to the brewhouse and back).

-real heavy duty. It's a keg...


The best homebrew fermenter on the market right now is the Brewhemoth. It is a fully pressurizable conical fermenter (but 22 gal capacity is a lot for some folks). Only one I've seen. Saweeet.

But with mine, I have corny posts on mine, so when time to rack the carbonated beer off the yeast, I don't have to depressurize at all (which used to kick up a lot of yeast). Now it's evident since I get just a dusting of yeast at the bottom of my serving vessels, rather than a cake like before (FYI- I do not filter, fine, or anything). No need to secondary with this method at all (except for additions).


Oh, and P.S. - one thing about the Sabco I don't like is that it has an analog thermometer instead of a thermowell. I would option a thermowell (on the top clamp) in it's place if I bought one. That's the only thing on it that would break if banged around (which I certainly do with mine). I have a 16" thermowell coming down from the top clamp which makes it removable to clean/boil. This makes for one weld below the beer line- the bottom dump...IMO.

I'll shut up now.

 

[treaves]

I understand your desire to use the same tank for conditioning too, but, I wanted to ferment another batch while conditioning or laggering the first. So two months ago, when faced with this same choice, I decided to go Sabco. I also purchased their conditioning tank. This way, I can use CO2 to push the clear beer into the conditioning tank, clean the fermenter, and brew again. Yes, it adds to the cost, but, overall is a very good option.

I've used this setup several times now, and am very pleased I went this route.

 

[SankePankey]

I do like their conditioning tank.

As a conditioning tank, my 15 gal corny is hard to beat too, for the money. It was $200. It's light as a feather compared to the Sanke, and it has a rubber bottom already. I do primary ferments in it too and it's great.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

My sabco has a thermowell that the thermometer can go in to... I pulled the analog out and put a thermocouple in with no problems, works great!

 

[JCTM]

Thanks for the help!!!

Cheers

JC

 

[damnitbeavis]

Unless you are adding fruit to your beers, (which mostly requires a secondary as far as I know) you may not need to "secondary" per se. I used to secondary every beer I made, but recently due to advice garnered here and elsewhere, I have been omitting that step, and have found the beers to ferment more cleanly, and I have never, ever, had problems with yeast autolysis.

I ferment in plain ol' regular sanke kegs with the spear removed and a brewer's hardware sanke fermenter kit, and I like them. I have also heard you can stretch a 6 gallon carboy cap over the top, which seems like it would work great as well, and not be so expensive. I did once have my brewer's hardware sanke fermenter kit cause the loss of an entire 10 gallon batch of beer, however. The racking cane is permanently installed, and there is a little cap over the end. I had installed an airlock instead of the blowoff, and the airlock got clogged with krausen, and then the little white cap came off the racking cane. With pressure, and an outlet, the beer just went all over the floor of my garage. It sucked.

I don't harvest yeast very often because I feel it is just easier to buy another pack and go from there. I have just pitched directly on top of the dregs in my fermenter before, and also had good results.

You might also consider the stout tanks and kettles conicals, they look nice (haven't used them) and have triclover fittings, which makes sense to me as a good idea if you are fermenting in a steel vessel with valves.

 

[DaleP]

The Brewhemoth combines the best of both in one unit. They are currently leak checked at 100 psi, built like a tank (heavier gauge metal than a keg), and relatively inexpensive.

 

[treaves]

First of all, the Brewhemoth is a very late to the game, and ads no features over any existing product on the market, and that has been on the market, for at least a decade. Secondly, there are many people would would disagree with the combination of features, me being one of them. And lastly, there are products on the market in the same general price range, although perhaps not as well known. And there are features, such as internal racking arms, that are missing.

I wanted a setup that would allow me to ferment, and then to condition. I'd actually prefer to keg condition and carbonate, and may once i have room for a beer engine. What my setup gives me is the ability to brew - and ferment - as fast as the beer ferments. As soon as it's done fermenting, I can move it to a conditioning take to dry-hop, lagger, or simply age (condition). Could you do this with the BH? Sure. But nowhere nearly as easily. As we were talking about on IRC yesterday (several of the members own BH), even taking a sample is more difficult.

As with any product, each user needs to define the criteria by which they can judge, and then apply those criteria to the products available to them. If it brews good beer, I support it!

 

[StMarcos]

Can do a half bbl in BH, not in sanke. Can dump cold break. Used blichmann for years and never appreciated/used the racking arm.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

First of all, the Brewhemoth is a very late to the game, and ads no features over any existing product on the market, and that has been on the market, for at least a decade. Secondly, there are many people would would disagree with the combination of features, me being one of them. And lastly, there are products on the market in the same general price range, although perhaps not as well known. And there are features, such as internal racking arms, that are missing.

I wanted a setup that would allow me to ferment, and then to condition. I'd actually prefer to keg condition and carbonate, and may once i have room for a beer engine. What my setup gives me is the ability to brew - and ferment - as fast as the beer ferments. As soon as it's done fermenting, I can move it to a conditioning take to dry-hop, lagger, or simply age (condition). Could you do this with the BH? Sure. But nowhere nearly as easily. As we were talking about on IRC yesterday (several of the members own BH), even taking a sample is more difficult.

As with any product, each user needs to define the criteria by which they can judge, and then apply those criteria to the products available to them. If it brews good beer, I support it!

I'm sorry, but you are seriously under-informed about the brewhemoth. I own both a BH and a Sabco, so I feel confident in my responses considering that I actually have hands on experience with both systems.

You say it adds no new features yet show me a 20+ gal conical that I can not only ferment in, but carbonate in as well for under $500... oh wait, you can't. Your statement isn't clear regarding "combination of features" then talking about a racking arm that is not necessary. I also don't understand why you think that taking a sample out of the BH is more difficult... I actually find getting samples out of the sabco is more difficult due to the height of the racking arm valve, especially when it is sitting on the ground. You have to open a single valve on both to take a sample, so really difficulty from a physical labor standpoint is a moot point.

Its one thing to state an opinion, but to talk about something as a fact when you clearly have no working knowledge of it is something completely different.

 

[treaves]

I'm actually very well informed, thanks.

It's a bit of a stretch to all price a feature. Well, actually, it simply isn't a feature. A purchasing point sure.

And I love that you concoct a scenario under which it is hard to take a sample. If the BH was in a sealed box, it would then not b possible to take a sample. It's easy to come up with situations that support your opinion, as you are doing here. Why anyone would attempt to take a sample from a Sabco while it is on the ground just kind of defies imagination.

Finally, a racking arm is an actual feature. It may not be one you are interested in, and that is fine. People like them as it allows for getting the clear beer off of the yeast, in the Sabco case for removing the yeast, and for taking samples of clear beer.

I'll repeat my position that one is not better than the other in an absolute sense. One needs to determine what features and selling points are important to them, then make a decision.

So if you want to be an emotional troll, trying to elicit a response, please go elsewhere. Flaming people never leads to intelligent discussion, which is the purpose of these forums.

 

[FSR402]

I'm actually very well informed, thanks.

It's a bit of a stretch to all price a feature. Well, actually, it simply isn't a feature. A purchasing point sure.

And I love that you concoct a scenario under which it is hard to take a sample. If the BH was in a sealed box, it would then not b possible to take a sample. It's easy to come up with situations that support your opinion, as you are doing here. Why anyone would attempt to take a sample from a Sabco while it is on the ground just kind of defies imagination.

Finally, a racking arm is an actual feature. It may not be one you are interested in, and that is fine. People like them as it allows for getting the clear beer off of the yeast, in the Sabco case for removing the yeast, and for taking samples of clear beer.

I'll repeat my position that one is not better than the other in an absolute sense. One needs to determine what features and selling points are important to them, then make a decision.

So if you want to be an emotional troll, trying to elicit a response, please go elsewhere. Flaming people never leads to intelligent discussion, which is the purpose of these forums.

Ok so you say the BH does not have a racking arm. But it does have a port for one. So what's the problem? Why would you put something like this in a completely closed off box? You seem to be grasping at straws there.

 

[JCTM]

So gentlemen…. in short, both products are good and it’s just a matter of preferences and needs....I just wanted to get some input/feedback since this is not a 10 dollar investment....I have realized that both BH and Sabco are great product based on the above comments....in the end, it seem that I cannot go wrong with any of them.....

Cheers
JC