S04 fruitines temperature?

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kiwipen

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Is there a certain fermentation temperature that S04 give a more fruity flavor and aroma?

Will it be fruitier at higher temperatures? Will it give other flavors and aromas at higher temperatures?

The fermentation temperatures is Ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F) according to the data sheet.
 

Jag75

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dmtaylor

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Interesting thing about S-04 that I've noticed, but don't know if anyone else has: S-04 is NOT fruity at all. Actually it is very clean and lager-like. That's been my experience. Maybe it's more fruity at cold temperatures, but I know that in the 60s and 70s, it is clean as a whistle.

If you want fruity, try a different yeast.
 

ebbelwoi

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Interesting thing about S-04 that I've noticed, but don't know if anyone else has: S-04 is NOT fruity at all. Actually it is very clean and lager-like. That's been my experience. Maybe it's more fruity at cold temperatures, but I know that in the 60s and 70s, it is clean as a whistle.

I'm planning to brew a W-34/70 Helles tomorrow (about 18 hours from the time this message is posted). The grain is already measured out.

I've also got some S-04 on hand, and I'm tempted to see if there's anything to this "S-04 is clean as a whistle" claim.

In terms of noble-ish hops, I've got HMF, Hersbrucker, Tettnanger, Perle, Mandarina Bavaria, Saaz and Magnum on hand.

@dmtaylor , if you can give me a basic hop schedule, mash temp and fermentation temperature, I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm planning to do a 16L batch, and I've got a 15g packet of Morgan's Premium Ale yeast (repackaged S-04). I'm looking for an easy-drinking, fast & flocky lager.
 

Miraculix

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Interesting thing about S-04 that I've noticed, but don't know if anyone else has: S-04 is NOT fruity at all. Actually it is very clean and lager-like. That's been my experience. Maybe it's more fruity at cold temperatures, but I know that in the 60s and 70s, it is clean as a whistle.

If you want fruity, try a different yeast.
Fun fact, it used to be different. I brewed stouts with it that were really fruity.

But my last beer I brewed with it, was like you described.

If I would want fruit bomb, I would use verdant IPA. That one is really fruity.
 

dmtaylor

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I'm planning to brew a W-34/70 Helles tomorrow (about 18 hours from the time this message is posted). The grain is already measured out.

I've also got some S-04 on hand, and I'm tempted to see if there's anything to this "S-04 is clean as a whistle" claim.

In terms of noble-ish hops, I've got HMF, Hersbrucker, Tettnanger, Perle, Mandarina Bavaria, Saaz and Magnum on hand.

@dmtaylor , if you can give me a basic hop schedule, mash temp and fermentation temperature, I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm planning to do a 16L batch, and I've got a 15g packet of Morgan's Premium Ale yeast (repackaged S-04). I'm looking for an easy-drinking, fast & flocky lager.

Ooh... a helles... that's one of my favorite beer styles.

How certain are you that Morgan's is repacked S-04? I am not familiar with Morgan's. If it's not the same, then obviously it would not turn out the same. I'd be curious to hear your experience either way.

Would you split the batch between W-34/70 and the Morgan's, for a direct comparison of finished beer flavor? That would be ideal. You should get great results from either W-34/70 or S-04, and maybe from Morgan's if it really is the same as S-04.

For hops, I would use a single addition of Hallertau Mittelfrueh at the beginning of the boil, and nothing else. I wouldn't even use Magnum. This is a helles.... might as well make it an excellent one. You'll still get plenty of flavor and aroma from the early hop addition. If you don't believe me, then add another charge at about 10 minutes remaining in the boil. That would be great as well.

I'd recommend a single infusion mash at 150 F (65.5 C) for 1 hour. Mash pH should be adjusted to about 5.5. Ferment at room temperature, about 70 F (21 C). Should be done within about 7-10 days with either of your yeasts. Keep it simple, no need to over-complicate things. It's a simple, straight-forward beer style. In this case, as a yeast experiment, let the yeast do the work for you, while you relax.
 

Sacha

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Brewed with S-04 last winter since it seems to handle low 60's better than S-05, which I've had get stuck. I thought it had a bit of an odd tang, not as clean as S-05. Not sure I'd call it fruity, but I've noticed I don't pick up on that taste the same way others do.
 

ebbelwoi

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Here's some info about Morgan's repackaged yeasts:

They seem to take their product descriptions straight from Fermentis:

The "Premium Ale Yeast" and S-04 in particular:
Morgans Premium Ale screenshot.jpg
S-04 screenshot.jpg


Unfortunately, I don't think I can do a split batch right now. I've got two fermenters I could use, but at kegging time, I'd have to combine them into one keg. I do have two smaller kegs, but they're booked for the next month or so. Maybe I'll try the W-34/70 batch first, as a sort of baseline.

My plan was to mash 15 minutes at 63C, then do a 15-20-minute decoction, and hope to get up to 70C by adding it back. I've only done a decoction once (on my last batch of Helles, which is currently conditioning), but it was a lot easier than I had expected, so I'm going to try it with this batch as well.

As for hops, I was planning to add 20 IBUs of Hersbrucker, 1/3 as first wort hops, and 2/3 at 60 minutes.

One more thing regarding the Morgan's/S-04: you've said that clean S-04 you've been experiencing might be due to changes in production or quality control. I'll go with the newest Morgan's package I've got, but I wonder whether Morgan's S-04 might not be a good choice for a control group. It's no problem for me to get a sachet of Fermentis S-04, so if I'm going to do a split batch, maybe I should wait until I can do it properly.

Last question: pitch rate for S-04? Ale (.5g/L) or lager (1g/L)? Looking at an OG of around 1.047.
 
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dmtaylor

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Here's some info about Morgan's repackaged yeasts:

They seem to take their product descriptions straight from Fermentis:

Last question: pitch rate for S-04? Ale (.5g/L) or lager (1g/L)? Looking at an OG of around 1.047.

Thanks for the info on Morgan's yeasts!

As for pitch rate... maybe don't ask me... personally I only typically use 0.3 g/L. I would lean towards 0.5 g/L but still would consider that an overpitch (whereas most other people on Earth would not).
 

Ogilthorpe2

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Interesting thing about S-04 that I've noticed, but don't know if anyone else has: S-04 is NOT fruity at all. Actually it is very clean and lager-like. That's been my experience. Maybe it's more fruity at cold temperatures, but I know that in the 60s and 70s, it is clean as a whistle.

If you want fruity, try a different yeast.
I’ve found it to be noticeably, but not overly fruity every time I’ve used it. One of my favorite strains.
 

mashpaddled

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My uses of S04--which hasn't been in a few years--all produced beer with a little fruit if fermented in the mid to upper 60s. Anything lower came out very clean. I wouldn't personally use it for anything where you want a lot of estery fruit in the beer.
 

ebbelwoi

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Well, my brew day went really well. Somehow I ended up with the clearest wort I'd ever had, and the trub settled hard and fast. I remembered I'd been saving two sachets of Diamond. I can't get it in Japan, so I was waiting for a good clear wort for harvesting it. Today's was so crystal clear that it seemed like the perfect opportunity.

I ordered a sachet of the Fermentis S-04 today though, and hopefully my next lager will be a split batch between the S-04 and Diamond, W-34/70 or S-189. I'll keep ya posted.
 
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