I've got a wit and a wee heavy fermenting now with S-33, for seven and five days, respectively. Both are under 50% apparent attenuation and gravity flatlined days ago. The wit is 1.049 to 1.024; the wee heavy 1.092 to 1.055. Mash temperatures were low and roasted grains were moderate, so I'm blaming the yeast. I've already warmed it up (73 F) and swirled it around a few times, to no effect. Some forum searching says that if I just wait long enough, gravities will come down, but at the rate they're going (zero points of movement over a day) I am very skeptical. Any advice? I could pitch some Nottingham or something else.
S-33: Why would anyone use this yeast?
- Thread starter AlexKay
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I've used it once in a Dubbel because my shop was out of BE-256. It's slow, took me about a month to get near my target FG but abbey beers need their rest so it didn't bother me too much. Never used the nottingham, I'd go with a SafAle US-05 (my usual safety yeast). Add a bit of simple sugar too (dissolved in boiling water and then cooled), there's a good chance the S-33 already used up most of the simple sugars leaving a much harsher environment for the new yeast.
I used s-33 twice this spring and had completely different results from you. I brewed a 1.065 IPA and a 1.082 Double IPA and looking back at the tilt log, I was terminal, or damn close, within 48 hours at 67F. ~73% attenuation on each fermentation.
It wasn't my favorite yeast, but I was looking for something different instead of my usual ale yeast of notty. It do recall reading it was finicky, but that wasn’t my experience.
It wasn't my favorite yeast, but I was looking for something different instead of my usual ale yeast of notty. It do recall reading it was finicky, but that wasn’t my experience.
I've averaged about 67% attenuation with it. It does help to be patient with this yeast, it slows down quite a bit after the first few days but sometimes keeps on chugging for weeks. Might also be a recipe problem. And when's the last time you calibrated both your mash thermometer and your hydrometer? Are you using a refractometer or just hydrometer?
I failed patience, I’m afraid, and went ahead and pitched half a packet of US-05 into each. Hopefully things will start moving, though it’ll be hard to reproduce if it turns out to be fantastic.
Recipe … the wit was just Pilsner and flaked wheat, and that really ought to attenuate well. I used two thermometers (one gets left in the kettle, and the other spot checks), which agreed, and have been calibrated. Gravities are with a Tilt. That’s the elephant in the room: Tilts are great for trends but can be a fair bit off. On the other hand, I’ve used them long enough to get a bit of a sense as to when they’re accumulating sediment and are therefore less reliable, and these seem ok. (And, it is two batches, not just one.) And they’re way off where I’d want them to be, not just a bit. I’ll double check with another instrument on packaging.
Recipe … the wit was just Pilsner and flaked wheat, and that really ought to attenuate well. I used two thermometers (one gets left in the kettle, and the other spot checks), which agreed, and have been calibrated. Gravities are with a Tilt. That’s the elephant in the room: Tilts are great for trends but can be a fair bit off. On the other hand, I’ve used them long enough to get a bit of a sense as to when they’re accumulating sediment and are therefore less reliable, and these seem ok. (And, it is two batches, not just one.) And they’re way off where I’d want them to be, not just a bit. I’ll double check with another instrument on packaging.
Wit is down to 1.017, which is starting to be reasonable in terms of attenuation. WH has come down to 1.050. Don’t know if that’s the S-33 chugging along or the US-05 I added. Looks like a long wait ahead, though. It’ll be nice if these batches turn out ok.
It’s probably still the S-33 that is acting. I don’t know if the US-05 will be able to take off in this environment or not. I would not be super surprised if your wit stalls at 1.015-1.016 and your bigger beer keeps on chugging sloooowly until it hits about 1.032 then stalls out, probably permanently. But in either case, I would still wait like an extra week to see if it takes off again after it stalls, because there’s still a chance the US-05 could take hold and take gravity down a whole lot lower, but again, slooooowly.
A week later...
WH came down to 1.046 and stopped. Double-checked with a refractometer, which (corrected) read 1.041, so the Tilt was a bit off, but not too much. I just kegged it today. It's sweet but not unreasonably so for the style, and I think it'll end up pretty well.
Wit is at 1.010 and still veeeery slowly dropping.
I still want to ask -- why would anyone use this yeast? What a hassle.
WH came down to 1.046 and stopped. Double-checked with a refractometer, which (corrected) read 1.041, so the Tilt was a bit off, but not too much. I just kegged it today. It's sweet but not unreasonably so for the style, and I think it'll end up pretty well.
Wit is at 1.010 and still veeeery slowly dropping.
I still want to ask -- why would anyone use this yeast? What a hassle.
Beerstein
Well-Known Member
Did you add any yeast nutrient to it? Some yeasts are surprisingly sensitive to the amount of nutrients.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
The more interesting questions might be: What are good practices for using this strain yeast?
Yep, nutrients and oxygen both.
There still ought to be a reason to use it in the first place. Anyone is welcome to jump in and say "Hey, S-33 gives better (taste/mouthfeel/whatever) than the alternatives" ... maybe that someone will be me, and I'll report back if the beers end up amazing.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
Fermentis offers some reasons to consider using it. I have a package that I'll use some time in the near future. So I'm interested in 'good practices' for using this yeast (generally more helpful than complaints about what doesn't work).
Here's some more older HB Talk commentary on the subject:
Link 1
Link 2
And commentary from a couple other sites below.
Comparison between US-05 and S-33 Cascade Homewbrew
Aussie Home Brewer Commentary
S-33 is also talked about in this HB thread
Brew On!
Link 1
Link 2
And commentary from a couple other sites below.
Comparison between US-05 and S-33 Cascade Homewbrew
Aussie Home Brewer Commentary
S-33 is also talked about in this HB thread
Brew On!
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Several of my homebrewing friends (that make great beer and I respect) really enjoyed the S-33 Pale Ale version over the US-05 version. I would disregard the labeling info on the package and treat this yeast as a low-attenuating ESB style yeast and use it in a style where that type of yeast would work. I think it might be a great yeast in a lower ABV NEIPA style beer (session NEIPA?). I would probably not use it in a 1.092 OG beer.
In my one and only try so far with S-33 I did not see any fermentation issues. I started up fast and fermented strong for about 3 days and was done. That batch hit 68% attenuation, which seems fairly normal for this strain.
D.B.Moody
Well-Known Member
I started using it in 1995. It was Edme ale yeast back then. I brewed "Edme Bock" which used Edme dark malt extract, Edme light malt extract, and Edme ale yeast. As far as I know, the recipe was created by Edme to sell their products. The brew was great. I still brew that recipe, except Edme quit marketing malt extract, and then Edme quit marketing ale yeast. But Fermentis picked up the strain and started selling S-33. They used to tout it as the Edme strain. So I use S33 in that recipe.
S33 is also almost always the yeast in my porter, stout, and IPA recipes. It is used a fair amount in my house bitters recipe and will pop up here and there in anything but my summer ale, which is an American hopped ale. I brew ales and my preference is for British ales. If I want a more neutral taste, I usually use Munton's or Nottingham.
S33 is less flocculant than some so the beer does not clarify as easily/rapidly. This can result in aggravating amounts of sediment in bottles if bottled too early.
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Ok! It’s nice to have some answers to “why would anyone…”. For me, first taste of the Wit (which after 3+ weeks finally did finish at 1.010) was not that promising, but the WH was. Still green; I’ll wait.
dwhite60
Well-Known Member
I started homebrewing in 1990.The Edme dry yeast was pretty popular. I made some good beer with it.
This thread reminded me, I've got a pack of S-33 in the fridge. Should have used it in my mild today. It got Munton's Gold instead.
This thread reminded me, I've got a pack of S-33 in the fridge. Should have used it in my mild today. It got Munton's Gold instead.
Well, the beers are both done and conditioned and ready to drink. The wee heavy is very good, with just the right amount of yeast character. The wit is so-so, but it dropped absolutely brilliant, the clearest I've ever seen with one of my brews. As down as I was on this yeast in the OP, I'll in fact probably use it again.
Hmm. I guess the US-05 actually did do something, at least to the witbier. Attenuation is consistent with US-05 more than S-33. So you've got effects in the finished beer from both yeasts. Might have impacted the wee heavy as well -- what was the FG on that one?
The wee heavy end at 1.041, so 56%.
Holy cow, that's low attenuation, even for S-33. The US-05 didn't take hold there at all.
BrewSavage
Well-Known Member
I've used the yeast three times this year and I concur with others that it is really only suitable for making ordinary English pale ales.
The maker mentions Belgian and strong English ales on the web page but I simply don't see it. I should say I don't taste it
The maker mentions Belgian and strong English ales on the web page but I simply don't see it. I should say I don't taste it
Steveruch
Well-Known Member
I just bought two packs with the plan of brewing a mild and a bitter.
So I got around to using S-33 again, again for a wit, as well as a porter. The wit has gone from 1.048 to 1.019 in 4 days, for 60% attenuation. It looks done, according to my Tilt. The porter also looks done (5 days), but is 1.047 to 1.030, for 30% attenuation. Thir-ty per-cent. But the WH last time was poorly attenuated and yet delicious, so I have not given up hope. Time to swirl and warm up.
9Kegs
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I brewed an ESB yesterday and pitched Lallemand's London English Ale yeast. I payed $1.50 / pack because the expiration date was this month. Supposedly this yeast is from the same strain as your S-33. I am glad I did some research before brewing and discovered that it does not eat maltotriose.
From the Lallemand website:
LalBrew London™ does not utilize the sugar maltotriose (a molecule composed of 3 glucose units).
Maltotriose is present in wort in an average 10-15% of all malt worts. The result will be fuller body and residual sweetness in beer. Be advised to adjust gravities and mash temperatures according
to desired result.
This beer will probably hit final gravity in less than 36 hours. If you decide to give it another go, mash lower.
From the Lallemand website:
LalBrew London™ does not utilize the sugar maltotriose (a molecule composed of 3 glucose units).
Maltotriose is present in wort in an average 10-15% of all malt worts. The result will be fuller body and residual sweetness in beer. Be advised to adjust gravities and mash temperatures according
to desired result.
This beer will probably hit final gravity in less than 36 hours. If you decide to give it another go, mash lower.
Porter has crept along, one gravity point a day or so, for thirty-one days now. Now it looks done. FG is 1.014, for 67% attenuation (plus or minus however much the Tilt -- which is always wrong -- is wrong by.)
Shenanigans
Well-Known Member
I only use it for bottling big beers that I had maturing a long time in a secondary.
Normally my Barley Wine that is fermented with US-05 for a month and then bulk aged for 3 or 4 months before I bottle it.
Not sure if it's really needed but want to make sure the bottles don't take forever to carbonate.
It's cheap, has a lower attenuation than US-05 so should only eat the bottling sugar and not result in bottle bombs.
It also has a high alcohol tolerance.
Has worked perfect for this 5 times now.
Normally my Barley Wine that is fermented with US-05 for a month and then bulk aged for 3 or 4 months before I bottle it.
Not sure if it's really needed but want to make sure the bottles don't take forever to carbonate.
It's cheap, has a lower attenuation than US-05 so should only eat the bottling sugar and not result in bottle bombs.
It also has a high alcohol tolerance.
Has worked perfect for this 5 times now.
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