Rushing into All Grain?

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Lgaddy44

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I'm new to home brewing, only a couple months in, but of course, it's consuming my every free thought. I've completed a couple extracts, will be doing my second partial mash this weekend, and I'm exploring the possibilities of jumping into an all grain (possibly too soon?).

I've watched a ton of videos on youtube and have also read up a good bit on all grain methods. I'm feeling fairly confident that I'd like to at least give it a shot. The problem is, I live in an apartment, with limited working space, and no ability to cook outside with a 30qt pot and propane burner.

I'm thinking...I've got what I think is about a 10 gallon Coleman cooler I can convert into a mash tun. Split the difference for my mash water volume between (2) 4-5 gallon pots on the electric stove. Bring the water to temp, mash in the cooler, and heat up my sparge water in the same fashion. Vorlauf, sparge as directed, and split the wort between my (2) pots on the stove for the boil.

I could split the hop additions equally between the two pots, chill, and combine both pots of wort into my primary at the end. Shake up the carboy, pitch the yeast, and voila!

I feel like this is a dumb question, because it really does make sense to me, but I would greatly appreciate some feedback, and please, feel free to let me know if anyone has tried or currently uses this method.
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

Have you read through that thread? There's some good advice and techniques there. DeathBrewer also has a thread on partial mash brewing, which I would recommend trying before going all grain. Obviously, it's not a necessity to do PMs first but it can give you a better perspective on AG if you're unsure about jumping right in.
 
Jump on in. It's not much harder and gives you a more of a "from scratch" feel to homebrewing. I brewed 3 extract batches then went allgrain from there.

I was all self tought so I'm sure I have some bad habits, but still produce beer I love to drink. I have actually never watched someone brew that I have not tought. So you really can get the process down just by reading a little.
 
i recently started doing all grain on the stove top. i cant boil more than 4 gallons, i dont guzzle tons of beer, and i like to experiment. so my answer was to do 3 gallon batches. i have a mashtun, and my 5 gallon boil kettle and it works great. it gets your "per batch" cost down quite a bit too. learn to harvest yeast and you can brew a batch for under $10.
 
Go all grain and never look back... I've never used extract, but t seems like I might as well go get a six pack from the grocery store if I were brewing with powder and syrup... All grain is great, and I can;t imagine doing it any other way.
 
I'm new to all grain as well, but I don't think I'll go back to extract now that I jumped into the deep end. There are a lot of people here that do the same thing your talking about. I dug around on this forum and got every answer I needed to make great beer. Take a look at the DIY section and you can build everything you need.
 
I jumped into all-grain from brew number 1. It came out so-so, drinkable but not great.
I knew what my mistakes were. I fixed the mistakes and they've been coming out good since. I owe that to a lot of good advice here.
I also split batches on the stove for winter, on account of I'm a cold weather pansey. Works fine.
I say go for it, and if the first doesn't come out quite right, keep going. I love the process as much as the beer.
 
Agreed!

I went all grain for my second ever batch. Its really not that big of a step! I did the same thing you did, watched all the youtube videos, researched....made a DIY chiller and converted a cooler into a mash tun. It was easy, and much more satisfying!

You are ready. Just do it!
 
Jump on in. It's not much harder and gives you a more of a "from scratch" feel to homebrewing. I brewed 3 extract batches then went allgrain from there.

I was all self tought so I'm sure I have some bad habits, but still produce beer I love to drink. I have actually never watched someone brew that I have not tought. So you really can get the process down just by reading a little.

This. I brewed two extract batches and then immediately bought a 10 gal Rubbermaid mash tun and jumped into AG. Never looked back. I do a single temp infusion mash and a batch sparge. It's ridiculously easy. I don't know why people think it's so hard, it's not. Add grain to cooler, add hot water, stir every 15 minutes for an hour, drain, add sparge water, stir, drain, done. The first one you do you'll probably make some minor mistakes, but by the end of the second batch you'll be an old pro.
 
do it. go all grain. spent almost a year messing with extract, and while i made some great beer, wish i had gone all grain sooner. why not just brew 2 or 3 gallon batches which you could handle doing with your space constraints? I have a buddy who does nothing but 2.5 gallon batches, it might not be a ton of beer, but it allows him to brew alot more often which I think for the most of us is more than half the enjoyment! DO IT! A nice nice all grain setup can be head for around a hundred dollars if you shop around...
 
I did two extract batches and then jumped into all grain. You sound like me, thinking of it all day and night. You won't regret it, your options multiply immensely and become simpler to achieve when going to all grain.
 
Welcome to the endless, obsessive spending spree. I foolishly wonder if it will end some day........

Went Ag and i love it, and like an earlier post I wish I had done it sooner. My first AG brew went smooth as silk, for two main reasons I recommend:

1) Take time and think about your equipment. Are you going to jump next to 10Gal batches? Do you prefer a counterlow IC, an regular IC, or a plate chiller? How big will your grain bills be? What type of beers do you like? If you're an Imperial Stout / Barleywine kinda guy, consider a bigger tun, Etc., Etc., Etc.

2) I have the fortune of having a friend who was an avid AG brewer come over and supervise. Pretty sure something would have gone wrong if he weren't there. If you know an AG brewer, I highly recommend that step.

This all comes with the caveat I'm an obsessive, efficiency chasing, tinkering freak-a-zoid. I'd sell a kidney for 5 efficiency points. :drunk:
 
I went straight from doing kits beers to all-grain. No regrets, never looking back. Every time I brew, I rack the wort into the fermenter thinking to myself... when and what will I brew next. I jumped in two feet in. As soon as I built my mash tun and picked up a turkey fryer, I did 3 brews in a week. Now I have no more space for carboys. I have to put off my next batch till Friday.

It is like an addiction. Not in the "I like to booze up" kind of way, but the satisfaction of brewing beer I can call my own, give away to people and see them enjoy it as well. It is a hobby that is more satisfying than most I say. It is a hobby where it is easy to put a smile on someones face when you can pass them a pint and say, "Hey! I made this one for you." Cheezy? Sure, but I'll be damned if someone could ever be able to take those kinds of moments away from me.

It is an adventure in creativity, both in process and in product. Almost every brewery I have been to does things a little differently, just like every home brewer does things a little differently. Doing your beer from grain to glass allows you to truly own your process, as well as owning your own beer.

I say at this point, there is no reason you shouldn't be doing all-grain. Brewing from scratch is as much a science as it is an art. Learn by doing, and do while learning. Invite your friends over to help you brew. Make them part of the process. Spread the joy of home brewing and the desire for better hand crafted beers.
 
I'm basically in the same boat you are. I started brewing about 3 months ago and after 3 extract beers, I just brewed my first AG 3 weeks ago (i couldn't stand knowing there was an entirely different method to learn and I wasn't learning it). I'm bottling it this weekend and after hitting all of my numbers on brew day, I pulled a sample a few days back and it's delicious (made a SmAsH ale).

It wasn't nearly as complex or difficult as I thought - was actually more relaxing than my previous brew days.

I was also hesitant because I boil on the stove top and only use a 5 gallon pot. No problem though - like one of the others suggested, I just did a 3 gallon batch from a 4 gallon boil.

The only extra cash I forked out was for building the mashtun - roughly $50 from a rubbermaid cooler, and a good thermometer- spent about 30 on that.
 
You might still be able to do full 5 gallon batches in an apt.

I have a 48 qt igloo cooler MLT, and a very lightly used 7.5 gallon turkey fryer setup i got on craigslist (i only use the kettle from this setup). I am able to bring damn near 7 gallons to a good rolling boil on my stove top (i just need to make sure the kettle is straddling two burners).

It just takes a litle more time getting to a boil than a banjo burner or something similar would.
 
i recently started doing all grain on the stove top. i cant boil more than 4 gallons, i dont guzzle tons of beer, and i like to experiment. so my answer was to do 3 gallon batches. i have a mashtun, and my 5 gallon boil kettle and it works great. it gets your "per batch" cost down quite a bit too. learn to harvest yeast and you can brew a batch for under $10.

This is what I've been toying around with doing. I mostly do extract brews with grains, and I've done 2 PM brews as well. The price is a factor for me as well. I brew with a friend who isn't interested in doing PM or all-grain, he just started out and is more than happy doing extract brews. He'd be more than happy letting me brew at his place however I like, though. He's now got all of my equipment there (my tiny 2 bedroom apartment, now with a 2.5 year old and another on the way doesn't work for brewing)

I like the idea of experimenting a bit more, personally. But a 5 gallon IIPA or Imperial ryePA wouldn't do well with many of the people we're around (I'm not a guzzler either)

I could use some tips on how to do a smaller all-grain, though. I've only done PM before, would there be a difference doing a small batch all grain? Other than not using DME or LME?

We were thinking more like 2.5 gallon batches, but 3 sounds reasonable as well. I just insulated the mash in the brewkettle with my last one. But how much would it be to put together a mash tun for these smaller batches?

I'm getting excited (sorry, not to ransack the thread)
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Converting_a_cooler_to_a_mash_tun

I followed that for the Rubbermaid Cooler - got everything accept the Stainless steel fender washers (got them online) from Home Depot. It totaled around $50 for everything and after i had all the parts it only took about 15 min to assemble everything. I figure I could drop 50 bucks and for the amount I'd be saving per batch, I'll make that up quickly, and have some good beer in the mean time.
 
I see.

That's the tough part for me right now. Just spending another 50 bucks on something, although it would make brewing more fun and cheaper in the long run. Smaller batches will be great for me, and that's probably what I'll end up doing. My buddy may even help out with a few bucks towards the mash tun.
 
My two cents (which is, after taking into consideration the exchange rate, is worth considerably less than two cents)....

If you wanna go AG, fire it up... I would highly recommend reading Palmer's How to Brew if you haven't already. Unless you're some kind of insanely wicked smot person, a lot of it won't make total sense. I would then highly recommend just making a couple stove-top brews per Deathbrewers tutorial... then... after each time you do a brew like Deathbrewer demonstrates... go back and skim through How To Brew again... a TON more will make sense. Each time you brew and then refer to the book, a LOT more will click.

The ONLY reason I am suggesting this method is that it seems like a lot of folks (I did it too) dive into AG and immediately want to build all sorts of equipment... again... I did it too. And that's not a bad thing except if you take just a little bit of time up front, brew a couple "simple" batches and really get a grasp on some of the nuaces of AG brewing, then you'll be able to REALLY decide what kind of equipment you want... a RIMS, a HERMS, neither... how many gallons? gravity? pumps? single, double, triple teir, etc etc etc.

I would recommend get just a little practice and then building something you really want as opposed to building something you might grow out of in three months.
 
I went all-grain after 3 extract batches including one bad extract batch (IPA kit didn't have nearly enough hops in it).

AG is the way to go.
 
If you split the boil, how are you going to do the hopping? I think that it's pretty unlikely that the two will start boiling at the same time, and if they do then you will have 2 hot breaks to deal with. I guess you could wait until they are both boiling and split the hops between the two.

I think that partial mash is a good option if you are stuck brewing indoors. I made two partial mash brews this winter and I was happy with them (one was a bit too sweet for my taste, but I did drink the whole thing).

On the other hand, if brewing outdoors is an option, all-grain is not much more difficult than partial mash.
 
I went All-grain from Batch #1. Here are some Considerations i've learned:

1. You have to be able to boil 7 gallons of liquid. You need at least an 8 gallon pot to do this. My stove in my condo was able to bring 7 gallons to a boil in an 8 gallon aluminum pot, so this worked for me. But if you can't bring that much to a boil, or don't want to buy a propane burner, don't bother with all-grain just yet.

2. All grain takes an additional 2 hours or so to brew. If i'm really on my game, I can knock out an all-grain brew in about 4 hours, start to finish. My first batch took 6 hours +. Be prepared for longer brew days.

3. You'll need a wort chiller of some kind. No good way around this. You can build an immersion chiller for $25 that will get the job done. With all-grain, you're boiling the full volume of wort, so that means you have to quickly cool 5gallons of 212* liquid. An ice bath will take forever

4. Building a Mashtun is the simplest part of going all-grain. You can get a 52qt igloo cooler for $20. The hardware to put a valve on it runs about $10, and making a CPVC manifold, or stainless braid is super easy.

5. Follow known good recipes, and stick to them for the first 4-5 batches minimum.

6. Building off the last point, get some sort of brewing software. If you have an Apple itouch/iphone/ipad, there is a great brew software called BrewPal. It's 99 cents and will do all the all-grain calculations for you. If not, Beersmith is great, and has a 3 week trial.

You're going to want to plug in a known good recipe into the brewing calculator, and it will help you with your strike and sparge temperatures. Also, plan for 65% efficiency, If the recipe is built around 70 or 75%, add more two-row in your calculator to get back to the OG of the recipe.
 
I have been doing BIAB (similar to Deathbrewer). I usually end up supplementing with DME for big beers. I had been doing only partial boils up until recently. I've had issues with hop levels so I recently switched to boiling 2 pots on my stove to simulate a full boil. I can't straddle two burners for various reasons. What I do is combine the mash and sparge in one pot then divide the combined liquid into two pots. Then I add water to each pot to bring up to preboil volume. It's not optimal and I make sure to add campden to everything along the way but it seems to be working better than partial boils. I boil the two pots one after the other, starting the second while I cool the first in a water bath. For hopping, I split the hops in half, adding a total of 1/2 of all hop additions to each pot.

My brew days only end up being about one hour longer allowing for heating times and cooling times. Painful? A little. But I live in a small place without good ventilation or outside space and my available outlets are suboptimal for heatsticks, etc.

Its an experiment in progress. But so far so good.
 
If you don't want to build a cooler MLT initially, look at the BIAB partial mash and all grain methods... It's a good way to get comfortable with the all grain process.

As much as I've touted the BIAB method, and have gotten solid results, I'm getting ready to shift over to a cooler MLT for my all grain batches. It will let me to make brews with larger grain bills, so you'll have more freedom there.

If you plan on going to 10 gallon batches within a few years, get a 70 quart cooler to convert (larger if you can afford it)... Also get a cooler that's got decent wall thickness, and can retain temperatures for a good amount of time. I have the Coleman Xtreme which is rated at being able to keep ice for 6 days (not sure how much ice will be left, but it's a solid cooler)... We used a 48 quart cooler this past weekend, for a 10 gallon batch... Wasn't able to hold all our grain, and mash water (26.5# of grain)... Luckily we were able to use the BIAB method for the balance of the grain bill. Ended up as a good brew day even with the hickup.

I would also advise building in more time than you think you'll need for the first several all grain batches. Chances are, you'll need more time than you think you will. At least, until you have things dialed in, and everything figured out. How long that takes will depend on you.

As always, remember: RDWHAHB
 
The ONLY reason I am suggesting this method is that it seems like a lot of folks (I did it too) dive into AG and immediately want to build all sorts of equipment... again... I did it too.

Yeah. I'm guilty of that too. Instead, this winter I've been doing 2.5 gallon batches into a 3gallon carboy using BIAB instead of the converted cooler, CF chiller, etc. I would highly recommend this. It's so easy to manage that amount of grain on the stove top, BIAB is super easy, and the initial investment is lower. I even did some 3/4 gallon experiments into 1 gallon jugs.

The only downside to that is it takes just about as much time to do 2.5 gallons as 5, so your soft-cost per gallon is something close to double. The upside is, since I'm the only beer drinker in the house, I can do a lot more variety and get more practice with these small batches.

BIAB kept me from going insane this winter. Give it a try.
 
I went All-grain from Batch #1. Here are some Considerations i've learned:

1. You have to be able to boil 7 gallons of liquid. You need at least an 8 gallon pot to do this. My stove in my condo was able to bring 7 gallons to a boil in an 8 gallon aluminum pot, so this worked for me. But if you can't bring that much to a boil, or don't want to buy a propane burner, don't bother with all-grain just yet.

2. All grain takes an additional 2 hours or so to brew. If i'm really on my game, I can knock out an all-grain brew in about 4 hours, start to finish. My first batch took 6 hours +. Be prepared for longer brew days.

3. You'll need a wort chiller of some kind. No good way around this. You can build an immersion chiller for $25 that will get the job done. With all-grain, you're boiling the full volume of wort, so that means you have to quickly cool 5gallons of 212* liquid. An ice bath will take forever

4. Building a Mashtun is the simplest part of going all-grain. You can get a 52qt igloo cooler for $20. The hardware to put a valve on it runs about $10, and making a CPVC manifold, or stainless braid is super easy.

5. Follow known good recipes, and stick to them for the first 4-5 batches minimum.

6. Building off the last point, get some sort of brewing software. If you have an Apple itouch/iphone/ipad, there is a great brew software called BrewPal. It's 99 cents and will do all the all-grain calculations for you. If not, Beersmith is great, and has a 3 week trial.

You're going to want to plug in a known good recipe into the brewing calculator, and it will help you with your strike and sparge temperatures. Also, plan for 65% efficiency, If the recipe is built around 70 or 75%, add more two-row in your calculator to get back to the OG of the recipe.

1: Not true. Nothing says you have to brew 5 gallons each time. I've been doing 2 1/2 gallon batches in a 5 gallon pot. Works fine.

2: Not true. With "brew in a bag" it adds less than an hour to the time it takes to do an extract with grain.

3: Not true. With the smaller batch size, chilling the wort by immersing the pot in ice water only takes 20 minutes to cool to pitching temperature.

4: Not true. Buying a pair of paint strainer bags for "brew in a bag" is way simpler.

5: Probably a good idea, but I like to brew with the material I can buy locally which means substituting what they have for what I really wanted. Making only 1 substitution seems to be getting me some pretty good beer.

6: Absolutely. It is so much easier to predict what you will get without doing all the calculations. I didn't know I could only plan on 65% efficiency so I screwed up my first all grain and got 78%. I'm sorry and I'll try to not let it happen again.:D
 
^all your objections are based on small batches...took me about 45 mins to chill 2.5 gal of wort w/o chiller...took me 6 or 7 hours to chill 5 gals w/o chiller
 
To actually answer the OP's original question about doing all-grain on the stove with a mash tun and 2 boil pots: this is quite do-able and I've done it a couple of times for various reasons when I didn't have my propane burner.
Yes it is a little more work to have 2 pots boiling but its certainly do able, split the wort evenly and split the hops evenly if you don't get either of those exactly right it won't be noticeable, if they are put on the heat at the same time they should start boiling at almost the same time and adding hops +/- a minute to each pot won't make a big deal.
If you check out brew in a bag and think its for you then great go that way but you can certainly do allgrain with a mash tun and wort split between 2 pots well enough (I'm assuming of course you've tried boiling 2 pots of 4 gallons of water each and know your stove can handle it)
 
I just did my first all grain batch this weekend, and found everything Scottland said to be right on.
 
1: Not true. Nothing says you have to brew 5 gallons each time. I've been doing 2 1/2 gallon batches in a 5 gallon pot. Works fine.

2: Not true. With "brew in a bag" it adds less than an hour to the time it takes to do an extract with grain.

3: Not true. With the smaller batch size, chilling the wort by immersing the pot in ice water only takes 20 minutes to cool to pitching temperature.

4: Not true. Buying a pair of paint strainer bags for "brew in a bag" is way simpler.

5: Probably a good idea, but I like to brew with the material I can buy locally which means substituting what they have for what I really wanted. Making only 1 substitution seems to be getting me some pretty good beer.

6: Absolutely. It is so much easier to predict what you will get without doing all the calculations. I didn't know I could only plan on 65% efficiency so I screwed up my first all grain and got 78%. I'm sorry and I'll try to not let it happen again.:D

As RMitch pointed out, all of your points are related to small batches, and BIAB. The original poster is talking about 5 gallon batches and using a mash tun. My advice was geared towards that. Personally I find anything under 5 gallon batches to be a waste of time, but that's a completely different topic, and one that will vary, person to person.

As for the efficiency, most LHBS crush sucks. The best i got with my LHBS crush was 68%. With AHS crush, i was able to get 72% tops, usually 70%. I bought a barley crusher, and now get 82-84%. I was assuming he was going to get his grains from a LHBS, in which case, if he does end up with 70% + efficency, you can always dilute with water and end up with more beer, no big deal.
 
I do all grain on my electric stove, with a 12qt and 21qt pot. I have a 5gal cooler mash tun, and a 5 gal cooler hlt. I do pretty much what you describe, but I normally can just use my big pot to heat mash and sparge water. I split hop additions, cool, and then mixing in the primary.

I like having the different batches boil at different times(I use two kitchen timers to keep my times right). One batch finishes boiling while the other cools.

My only issue is that I have had to top off with between one and two quarts of water. Even when topping off i have gotten around 75% brewhouse efficiency on my last two batches(grain crushed by Northern Brewer)

I have done an all grain batch in 4 hours with this set up.
 
True, mine have been small batches but Scottland makes it sound as though there is nothing less than 5 gallon batches that can be done. The OP has an apartment with very limited space. Doing a small batch makes sense for him/her as it can all be done in that apartment, no problem. Well, there is one problem, you only get half as much beer at a time but that give opportunity to brew more frequently to get the experience and less waste if a batch goes awry. The process is still the same, heat water to stike temp and add grain, keep the temperature in the proper range until saccrification is achieved, cool quickly and add yeast.
 
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