BrewinInPA
Well-Known Member
The brulosophy guys seem to think you can brew a decent lager with Saflager 34/70 fermented at room temperature. Has anybody here tried this? If so, what were your results?
Room temperature fermentation with SafLager 34/70
- Thread starter BrewinInPA
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
thehaze
Well-Known Member
You can actually brew great lagers at room temperature. The thread from the post above contains more information. I've fermented lagers between 50F and 70F and with the right process, ingredients, lagering, etc. the temperature did not seem to make any difference in the final product. I've served lagers to brewers that make lagers. They liked all and they couldn't believe, that fermentation was done at 68F, in just 12 days ( 68F is only in the last 4-5 days - the first 5-8 days they sit at around 62-64F ). Lagering takes some time, but then the final beer is worth drinking.
I just used S-189 at room temperature. Turned out great, very clean lager. I would expect similar results from W-34/70 based on thousands of reports from others.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,885
- Reaction score
- 2,927
I use 34/70 exclusively...used it as warm as 66 and never had any issues. Won 3rd place in category at Malt Madness IX with a German Pils fermented at 66. Came out great!
rtstrider
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2016
- Messages
- 1,186
- Reaction score
- 714
Yes you can! I brewed a 12 ibu whirlpool hop only light lager, fermented at 64f, and it was clean. The thing I've run into though is the yeast is slightly tempermental in a few spots. Things to look out for is make sure when you pitch the yeast the wort is cooler than your ferment temp. Aka if your ferment temp is going to be 64f then pitch say at 62f and let it come up to 64f. The other thing is temperature control. This yeast ferments great at temps in the mid 60s but it does not tolerate temperature swings well from my experience. It gets a tad pear ester in there if you do that. Now with that said I use this yeast exclusively for lagers due to the quick turnaround. The only other issue I've had is clearing the beers. They do clear but this does take time and lagering. From my experience it took a good 6 weeks in the bottles to drop clear. Anywho keep this in mind and you should be good to go
Good luck!
OP
OP
BrewinInPA
Well-Known Member
To me, a little bit of pear ester sounds delightful. I have 5 packs of the SafLager 34/70 so I am going to have to give this a whirl. Do you think this would work with a Helles Dunkel?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,885
- Reaction score
- 2,927
Absolutely would work with a dunkle...any German Style lager 34/70 kills it!
I did a cream ale with 34/70 at 62F earlier this year and it made a great cream ale. I'm not sure that I agree with the notion that there's no difference between 62F and 50F, though.
I used an established American Premium Lager (or whatever Gordon Strong wants us to call those these days) recipe that I've brewed for years and know like the back of my hand. The resulting beer was certainly clean, but the finish was noticeably less crisp and more complicated and fuzzy. It was a great cream ale, but it was noticeably different compared to how this recipe ferments at 48F. This is a rice and corn adjunct recipe designed for a scalpel-sharp finish. It didn't have it. Compared to lager temps, the warm fermented 34/70 hit FG a bit more than a day earlier. It also took a looooong time to clear, even with the aid of keg clarifiers--a trait 34/70 normally doesn't exhibit.
It was a really enjoyable beer, nonetheless. If you don't have temp control, ferment warm and enjoy great beer! If you do have proper temp control, ugh, I don't want to be that guy...but I don't see the point.
If you know your recipe well, there is a difference, and it isn't small.
I used an established American Premium Lager (or whatever Gordon Strong wants us to call those these days) recipe that I've brewed for years and know like the back of my hand. The resulting beer was certainly clean, but the finish was noticeably less crisp and more complicated and fuzzy. It was a great cream ale, but it was noticeably different compared to how this recipe ferments at 48F. This is a rice and corn adjunct recipe designed for a scalpel-sharp finish. It didn't have it. Compared to lager temps, the warm fermented 34/70 hit FG a bit more than a day earlier. It also took a looooong time to clear, even with the aid of keg clarifiers--a trait 34/70 normally doesn't exhibit.
It was a really enjoyable beer, nonetheless. If you don't have temp control, ferment warm and enjoy great beer! If you do have proper temp control, ugh, I don't want to be that guy...but I don't see the point.
If you know your recipe well, there is a difference, and it isn't small.
Last edited:
OP
OP
BrewinInPA
Well-Known Member
Point Taken, Well stated. Thanks!
For me, setting up a fermentation chamber is more an issue of space than money.
For me, setting up a fermentation chamber is more an issue of space than money.
Scratching my head a bit on this one... I've heard of a Helles, and a Dunkel, but what's a Helles Dunkel?
OP
OP
BrewinInPA
Well-Known Member
My bad, just referring to a Bavarian style Dunkel. You are correct.
OP
OP
BrewinInPA
Well-Known Member
Black IPA is weird
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2017
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 14
I like to ferment with 34/70, in corny kegs under about 12 psi. Temperatures in the mid 60’s don’t seem to have any adverse effects. That being said, Bramling Cross noted that it takes a long time to clear when fermented warm and I think he’s right. No idea why, but batches fermented at 50° seem to clear better.
I see this said often, but really? A small fridge or chest freezer barely takes up any more room than a fermenter sitting on the floor. Probably less than putting a fermentation chamber in a tub of water. You could store your fermenter inside if (for some reason) you did not have a beer fermenting.
After years of fermenting without a chamber, moving to a small chest freezer was the biggest convenience factor upgrade in my brewing. I it is so easy to plug in a number and walk away...vs messing with opening/closing doors/vents, brewing around the forecast, leaving my home heat/AC set even when away, constantly checking on the fermentation temp, etc.
Steveruch
Well-Known Member
My solution.
This is what I have been doing for about the past year. I basically ferment lager recipes with ale yeast at ale temps, then cold age the finished beer in the extra space in back of my kegerator. My kegerator has 2 taps and space inside for 3 corny kegs.
I have not tried the PacMan yeast, after this I might need to give that one a try. I have used Wyeast 1056, 1272, 1968, 1099. All produced decent beers. 1056 seems to take longer to clear for me, was not my favorite despite being about the first yeast I thought of for this. 1272 dropped clear better. 1099 was my favorite out of the bunch so far. Wyeasts description says this can produce clean beers.
I guess what this is technically doing is making Cream Ale. There really isn’t much any of us can think of that hasn’t already been done or tried in the history of brewing.
rburrelli
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
- Messages
- 633
- Reaction score
- 463
Great podcast on MBAA by Fermentis about W34/70. They ran a series of tests and pretty much concluded that you can do almost anything you want and still get solid clean and neutral results. what I took from it was fermenting at ale temps made no difference than lager temps. Benefit was that it finished faster and no diacetyl.
OP
OP
BrewinInPA
Well-Known Member
Thats what I concluded too...can't wait to try!
I just picked up some to try on a lager recipe. I am usually a Wyeast guy, never was much for dry yeast because it had such an awful reputation back when I started brewing. This one has so much buzz around it that I really want to try it.
So is it only Fermentis 34/70? Or could you use the Wyeast or White Labs equivalent also at ale temps and get the same results? Is it the strain itself or something in their process?
So is it only Fermentis 34/70? Or could you use the Wyeast or White Labs equivalent also at ale temps and get the same results? Is it the strain itself or something in their process?
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,885
- Reaction score
- 2,927
I get that. I’m just wondering if people are only using Fermentis 34/70 at room temp or if that also works with the Wyeast and/or White Labs equivelants
Nope, Fermentis W-34/70 is actually genetically equivalent not to Wyeast 2124 but rather to Wyeast 2035. This was only discovered 2 years ago so don't feel bad. New genetic studies have been coming out even as we speak but it will take time to decipher them.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit#gid=1846233287
Great question. Not too many people have tried 2035 warm yet is my guess. Or 2124. Try it for yourself, you might love the results.
Thats interesting because 2035 was labelled as American Lager yeast. It’s also been called New Ulm yeast in the past. It’s the first choice for pre-prohibition lagers. And its now 2035-PC which means private collection so its one of those limited availability, “we’ll release it when we release it” strains, not readily available.
Kickass
Well-Known Member
Come to the dry side, you won’t miss those intolerable smack packs or whatever gimmick they’re peddling now. I say that with a little humor but honestly, dry yeast is of exceptional quality. 90%+ of my beers are dry yeast with good results.
I think you were looking for a liquid equivalent but I’ll share anyway, no. Diamond lager and Cellar Science German have given me good results in the low 60’s, similar to 34/70.
I only know this because I’ve been looking for a pack of 2035 for over a year now. Nobody has had it, it has not been available. I want to use it to make a pre-prohibition lager.
Hard to believe if Wyeast has the 34/70 strain they would make it private collection and limited availability.
The dry yeast was 6.50 I think and I pay about $10 for a liquid yeast shipped with an ice pack. So no, not really looking for the liquid (though it has been my preference) just wondering if its the strain itself or specific to Fermentis, something they did.
lablover
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2018
- Messages
- 96
- Reaction score
- 50
Yes, but let's not get carried away, if your room temp is 75 and your beer ferments at 82 your likely to have off flavors. Why not throw the fermenter in a cheap tub with some water and rotate an occasional frozen water jug to keep it in the 60's? That way your sure to have a clean fermentation.
Similar threads
