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Roggenbier mash schedule question

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Buford

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When I make a hefeweizen, I always do it as a decoction mash with a protein rest since wheat has a lot of protein in it (and it generally feels more "authentic" doing a decoction since it's German). I have never used rye before but want to make a roggenbier - I'm wondering if a protein rest is necessary and if I should use decoction for it as well, or if there is no benefit and I should just do a single infusion mash. With my mash tun size and the amount of grain I would be using, I can max out at about 1.4 qt/lb as opposed to the higher water/grain ratio (1.5 - 1.9 qt/lb) I use for hefe decoctions.
 

Aubie Stout

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Everything I read about rye said to treat it like wheat. I used a protein rest for mine. It goes to bottles this weekend.
 

ohiobrewtus

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I can't tell you for sure whether it's necessary with rye, but I'm going to be doing a Roggenbier soon and I'm planning on decocting it. I try to decoct all German styles.
 

littlehop

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This must be rogginbier weakend I am brewin one two but I'd like to do single infusion anybody got a clue either way. This is a NB kit swmbo ordered me and my first rogginbier.
 

bradsul

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This must be rogginbier weakend I am brewin one two but I'd like to do single infusion anybody got a clue either way. This is a NB kit swmbo ordered me and my first rogginbier.
You won't have a problem with a single infusion. I've made my Rye Ale in the winter mostly so far and I'm not one to decoction mash standing out in the snow so I infusion mash. I'm making it again within a couple weeks and I will decoct that one, but it will turn out great either way.
 

squiggy

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if doing a decoction what temps will you rest at and for how long? would you do a 122 protien rest or a 133? what about sach?
 

Evan!

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if doing a decoction what temps will you rest at and for how long? would you do a 122 protien rest or a 133? what about sach?
p-rests are usually around 120-122F. 133F is an intermediate rest temp. Sacch is whatever you want it to be, depending on how much residual LCD's you want in the final product. I'm assuming he'd rest at 122F, then take his decocting portion up to sacch for 20-30 minutes or so to complete conversion on that portion, then boil, then add that back to the main mash---depending on his grist, he may need to add more heat to get up to his sacch temp for the main mash...which is why I always use a direct-fired kettle mash when I'm doing multi-step decoctions: given that, most of the time, you're just eyeing the amount of mash to remove for decoction, the likelihood of that boiling portion bringing your temps up to the exact place you're shooting for is pretty slim. Every decoc I've done, I've had to add extra heat to the mash because adding back the boiling portion isn't enough to bring it up to target rest temps.
 

MattMann

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I am doing a Roggenbier this weekend too. Never done one, but thinking about just a single infusion. Will it make that much of a difference if I don't decoct. Never done it. J/w
 

bradsul

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p-rests are usually around 120-122F. 133F is an intermediate rest temp. Sacch is whatever you want it to be, depending on how much residual LCD's you want in the final product. I'm assuming he'd rest at 122F, then take his decocting portion up to sacch for 20-30 minutes or so to complete conversion on that portion, then boil, then add that back to the main mash---depending on his grist, he may need to add more heat to get up to his sacch temp for the main mash...which is why I always use a direct-fired kettle mash when I'm doing multi-step decoctions: given that, most of the time, you're just eyeing the amount of mash to remove for decoction, the likelihood of that boiling portion bringing your temps up to the exact place you're shooting for is pretty slim. Every decoc I've done, I've had to add extra heat to the mash because adding back the boiling portion isn't enough to bring it up to target rest temps.
That sounds like a good plan to me, I've been doing 122F for protein and then decocting to get up to 152F for the main mash (I like my rye ale a little on the dry side), then mashout decoction to 168F.

As for not hitting your next rest temp, what I learned from Kaiser is to make your decoction a little bit bigger than you think it should be. Then you add it back to the main mash in stages until you hit your next rest temp. Any leftover mash in the decoction kettle can just stay there (it's already converted after all). Once I started doing this I never had a problem hitting my temps.
 
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