RIP 4th Amendment

[z987k]

Today was a sad day. The Senate voted 69-23 to pass the new FISA bill.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6304
Also, I'll give them this, they couldn't have made it much harder to read through it, everything references everything else. You basically have to print it and highlight things that correlate to each other.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[EdWort]

Obama voted Aye and McCain didn't bother to vote at all.

 

[Soulive]

No surprise, its all part of the NWO...

 

[Evan!]

The federal government's new motto is:

"Feds: Singlehandedly Burning the Constitution to Bring You The Illusion of Safety!"

You wanna know why we haven't been attacked again since 9/11? Because Al Qaida can't stop laughing at what a great job they've done eradicating all those freedoms that they supposedly hate.

I guess, if the trrrrists really do 'hate our freedoms', like Bush said, then this is a good thing...it's one less thing for them to hate, right? The terrorists really are winning. Their aim wasn't just to blow up a bunch of people, it was to ruin our country. And they're doing a spectacular job, with the help of our elected *********s.

 

[Evan!]

Obama voted Aye and McCain didn't bother to vote at all.

coupla quality contenders right there.

 

[EdWort]

Wait till Amadinnerjacket sets off their EMP over the states. Ya'll are gonna want hand cranks on your Barley Crushers then.

 

[noisy123]

coupla quality contenders right there.

Yes, Obama is drifting ever-closer to douchedom with this one.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Ben Franklin

 

[Evan!]

Wait till Amadinnerjacket sets off their EMP over the states. Ya'll are gonna want hand cranks on your Barley Crushers then.

Ed, IIWY, I'd stay off the crack...

 

[Soulive]

I guess, if the trrrrists really do 'hate our freedoms', like Bush said, then this is a good thing...it's one less thing for them to hate, right? The terrorists really are winning. Their aim wasn't just to blow up a bunch of people, it was to ruin our country. And they're doing a spectacular job, with the help of our elected *********s.

I was talking to a non-practicing Muslim from Turkey last night. He was saying that the older generations laugh about how America's economy has been going down the toilet since 09/11/01. One way or another, we're losing for sure...

 

[EdWort]

Yes, Obama is drifting ever-closer to douchedom with this one.

Yes, douchedom. Obama now says it will take 24 months before he'll pull troops out of Iraq too. So much for his immediate retreat plan. Oops, I mean redeployment.

The guy is a typical politician and will lie at the drop of a hat for political expediency. It will become more and more apparent as we draw closer to November. Hopefully his halo will fade by then.

 

[EdWort]

Ed, IIWY, I'd stay off the crack...

No worry, I have an extra hand crank for you.

 

[Soulive]

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Ben Franklin

Funny you mention Ben, I'm reading his biography by Isaacson. This country is steadily heading in the opposite direction from what he had in mind...

 

[noisy123]

Funny you mention Ben, I'm reading his biography by Isaacson. This country is steadily heading in the opposite direction from what he had in mind...

I am still working on McCullough's bio on Adams. I want to get to that Franklin bio. I don't think many of the founding father's would be very pleased with where we are headed, 'cept maybe Hamilton, but he was a jerk anyway.

 

[Soulive]

I am still working on McCullough's bio on Adams. I want to get to that Franklin bio. I don't think many of the founding father's would be very pleased with where we are headed, 'cept maybe Hamilton, but he was a jerk anyway.

This Franklin bio is excellent. I like Isaacson's style though, including his bio of Einstein...

 

[z987k]

Obama voted Aye and McCain didn't bother to vote at all.

indeed. I don't think I can vote for him anymore.

 

[stever]

indeed. I don't think I can vote for him anymore.

Unfortunately that is our system.. you just end up voting for the lesser of the two evils.

 

[z987k]

Unfortunately that is our system.. you just end up voting for the lesser of the two evils.

nah I'll find a third candidate(better than not voting right?). But I cannot in good conscience vote for McCain or Obama. This is a principle I stand very very firmly on. He lost my vote today.

 

[Soulive]

nah I'll find a third candidate(better than not voting right?). But I cannot in good conscience vote for McCain or Obama. This is a principle I stand very very firmly on. He lost my vote today.

+1...I feel the same was pretty much. I feel like I'm wasting my vote, but I don't want either of them...

 

[EdWort]

It would be great if a 3rd party candidate would emerge and we elected him while at the same time tossing every incumbent congrASSman out on their ears.

 

[zbeeblebrox]

it almost seems that in the primary you vote for who you actually like then in the main election you vote against the guy you like the least.

 

[McKBrew]

Hmm, anyone got any links written in plain English that explain how the new FISA is going to affect me, how it is going to affect my freedoms or day to day activities? Looks like the FISA has been around in one form or another since 1978, and it's meant to stop the bad guys. I'm thinking that they aren't really monitoring every single phone call and every single e-mail, like the movies make it seem. I'd imagine they are looking for certain things, from certain countries, and certain people.

I did hear that they do suspect homebrewing sites as a source of major terrorist message traffic.

 

[z987k]

Hmm, anyone got any links written in plain English that explain how the new FISA is going to affect me, how it is going to affect my freedoms or day to day activities? Looks like the FISA has been around in one form or another since 1978, and it's meant to stop the bad guys. I'm thinking that they aren't really monitoring every single phone call and every single e-mail, like the movies make it seem. I'd imagine they are looking for certain things, from certain countries, and certain people.

I did hear that they do suspect homebrewing sites as a source of major terrorist message traffic.

actually when cheny/bush called up AT&T they pretty much said, just record everything. That's why some heads should be rolling... so to speak.

and as far as a plain English version, I'll look for one. I know it took me about two hours to wrap my head around what it's actually saying in there. Not the most plain test bill you've ever seen.

And as far as effecting you, even if it doesn't directly do so (I have nothing to hide). Well you just lost one of your freedoms under the bill of rights, there's an effect.

This is where that 3rd check and balance needs to come to the rescue (USSC).

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act

 

[RiverSwillBeer]

Hillary voted nay .....

Obama voted yea .... I dont get it.

 

[McKBrew]

I have a different view on the "removal" of our freedoms that so many people are scared of. I do fully agree that the government is going too far in some areas, but I wonder what the other options are. Do we totally avoid any form of phone monitoring, e-mail monitoring, etc... when we know that those methods can be used for terrorists to communicate? Do I really need to be concerned that someone might be monitoring my phone calls, when I have nothing to hide?

I understand both sides of the argument, and am not sure what the solution is. I'm not as much of a Bush supporter as I used to be, but I still do not think he is as bad as he is made out to be. (He is unpopular, but he is doing the same stuff that American presidents have been doing for the last 200+ years). I think there are dishonest republicans and I think there are dishonest democrats.

Life in the US might not be what it used to be, but I still feel thankful that I live in a great country where I can enjoy doing what I like to do.

 

[Soulive]

Life in the US might not be what it used to be, but I still feel thankful that I live in a great country where I can enjoy doing what I like to do.

+1...it could be a lot worse, but one of the things we are allowed to do is complain...

 

[beerthirty]

Hmm, anyone got any links written in plain English that explain how the new FISA is going to affect me, how it is going to affect my freedoms or day to day activities?
I did hear that they do suspect homebrewing sites as a source of major terrorist message traffic.

My understanding is that with technology they will use key words like bomb, nuclear, chemical warfare, allah to decide who is a terrorist threat to base eavesdropping on. And now that this has been stated on HBT we will all become suspect due to the key word use and all who read this page. Welcome to Amerika.

 

[Tenchiro]

You all seem surprised that politicians are *********s.

 

[McKBrew]

Is the technology really that good that it can monitor everything, everywhere? Since the law is approved, then the new technology should be operational, I'll let you know if men in black suits come knocking in the next few weeks.

When I brew, I worship the beer gods, but not the beer ALLAH.
Some of my fermenters remind me of those pictures of NUCLEAR reactors.
I started kegging, so now I don't worry about bottle BOMBS.
My biggest fear is that TERRORISTS might attack and invade my homebrew supply.

 

[NWernBrewer]

+1...it could be a lot worse, but one of the things we are allowed to do is complain...

But for how long...

Seriously though - even small things create precident and trends toward the erosions of larger and larger liberties. First, eliminate the right to peacefully assemble, then wiretaps without warrants and illegal search, seizure and arrests based on how low you wear your pants. Tomorrow... who knows.