Reverse Osmosis filtration system

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I started with that exact system (purchased via Amazon) and it worked fine in all respects save for throughput: I have a drilled well with a pump that ranges from 35 to 55 psi as it cycles, while the throughput for the membrane on the APEC system is rated at something like 75 psi. Practically speaking it was good for ~1.25 gph which meant gathering my ~20 gallons of brew day water starting early the day before.

I have since upgraded it by replacing the membrane with a 100 gpd rated model, adding a permeate pump, an auto-flush valve and a larger capillary to match the membrane. With that combination I'm up to an honest 4 gph (I've also added an Arduino-based control unit with flow meter so I can see how the system is performing).

To be honest it might be smarter to consult with someone who knows this stuff inside and out before committing to any solution. For the stuff I added I worked with Russ @Buckeye_Hydro who could have saved me a bit of $$ had I spoken with him before buying the stock APEC system...

Cheers!
 
Thanks, great info there. Yeah definitely want to make sure I get it right up front. I’ll be brewing 1/2 BBL batches so time to collect that amount of water will definitely be a factor to consider.
 
Such under the sink systems are really outdated and should be discontinued once and for all. My recommendation also considering your considerable batch size is to get a direct osmosis system or to get nothing at all. With direct osmosis you'll get better rejection and won't have to start collecting water 24 hours in advance.
 
Russ at Buckeye hooked me up with my system, works great. Its 100 gal/day premium rodi with chloromine guard.
 
That's similar to the system I bought from eBay several years ago at a cheaper price. But the specs say the throughput on this system is .035 gpm which is only 2.1 gph which is very slow.
 
And that's at maximum input pressure and optimal (read: room temperature or warmer) temperature.
Draw from a well running in the 50s°F all year 'round with a pressure range well below the optimum and the actual output drops rapidly...

Cheers!
 
Such under the sink systems are really outdated and should be discontinued once and for all. My recommendation also considering your considerable batch size is to get a direct osmosis system or to get nothing at all. With direct osmosis you'll get better rejection and won't have to start collecting water 24 hours in advance.

Thanks for the input. What makes them outdated? I’m new to the RO process so not well versed on everything yet, what is direct osmosis?

Thanks
 
That simply means that there is no reservoir, the treated water flows directly from the membrane to the tap. This requires a high pressure pump to achieve sufficient flow with the added advantage that at higher pressures the rejection rate increases.
 
Second on Buckeye Hydro. For about what that Lowes system costs, you can get a better one from Buckeye.

Another thing to consider when looking for a system: are the filter cartridges a standard size (i.e., 2.5x10"), or are they proprietary? If the system uses their own proprietary filters, you're stuck buying from them when it comes time to replace.
 
fwiw, the APEC ROES50 uses industry standard cartridge filters and membranes. That made it easy to replace the 50gpd membrane with the 100gpd Filmtec TW30-1812-100HR for $38 delivered. I run the feedwater pump at 75 psi, the operating max for the membrane is above 110 psi so there's plenty of guardband while still maintaining a ~ 96% rejection rate...

Cheers!
 
fwiw, the APEC ROES50 uses industry standard cartridge filters and membranes. That made it easy to replace the 50gpd membrane with the 100gpd Filmtec TW30-1812-100HR for $38 delivered. I run the feedwater pump at 75 psi, the operating max for the membrane is above 110 psi so there's plenty of guardband while still maintaining a ~ 96% rejection rate...

Cheers!

Does rejection rate = amount of waste water produced?

Thanks,
 
Rejection rate = the rate (percentile) of salts that are rejected through the waste water.
So 96% would mean that 96% of dissolved salts will get rejected and dumped with the waste water. The higher the rejection rate, the purer the water you'll be using to build your brewing liquor will be.
 
Rejection rate = the rate (percentile) of salts that are rejected through the waste water.
So 96% would mean that 96% of dissolved salts will get rejected and dumped with the waste water. The higher the rejection rate, the purer the water you'll be using to build your brewing liquor will be.

Got it, thanks for the clarification!
 
@Buckeye_Hydro Do you have a website? I’m trying to move... and I know I’ll need a system whenever that happens. I’d like to read up before I move so I have an idea of what I’ll need.
Cheers and thanks
 
I'm on a well and put my water thru an iron removal system then a softener then the RO and into a 5 gal water bottle. I have a Hydro Logic Stealth 150 with a pump to bring my pressure to 95 psi. It came with 2 different orifices for a 2:1 or 1:1 waste: permeate. I use the 1:1 and get 5 gal of permeate and ~3.5 waste in 38 min. with a TDS of 5 ppm. It would be even more efficient if I heated the incoming water to ~80*
 
That Stealth system is ok, but...
*keep an eye out for cracks in the clear housings up near the threads.
*IMO, the system configuration could be improved by moving the pressure gauge so it is after the prefilters.
*hopefully you added your booster pump between the carbon block and the RO membrane, rather than before the entire system. Consider adding a pressure gauge add on kit with a liquid filled pressure gauge before the RO membrane.

Russ
 
Last edited:
thanks for the heads up. I don't use a float switch and turn on the pump after the unit is running and turn it off before shutting the valve. The sitch I have is a sulfur smell but not taste. I don't have a meter on it for when to change filters and figured that a higher TDS along with a longer time to collect 5 gal would be a clue to change them. So far no leaks.
 
Are you running the system at least once a week?

A TDS (total dissolved solids) meter will tell you when the membrane is shot, but won't tell you anything about the prefilters (prefilter=anything that filters the water prior to the membrane).

A good rule of thumb is to replace your sediment filter and carbon block after six months. A more precise way to maximize the usable life of these two filters is to use a pressure gauge to identify when pressure reaching the membrane (w/ the pump turned off) starts to decline. This is your indication one or more of the prefilters is beginning to clog.

Also be cognizant of the chlorine capacity of the carbon block. A good 0.5 micron carbon block for example will remove much of the chlorine from 20,000 gallons of tap water presented at 1 gpm. Some original equipment suppliers commonly provide carbon cartridges rated at 2,000 to 6,000 gallons. Remember that all the water you process, both waste water and purified water, goes through the carbon block. Change the carbon block at 50% of the stated chlorine capacity.

Regarding your RO membrane, use your total dissolved solids (TDS) meter to measure, record, and track the TDS (expressed in parts per million [ppm]) in two places: 1) tap water, 2) after the RO.

The TDS in your tap water will likely range from about 50 ppm to upwards of 1000 ppm. Common readings are 100 to 400 ppm. So for sake of discussion, let's say your tap water reads 400 ppm. That means that for every million parts of water, you have 400 parts of dissolved solids. How do we go about getting that TDS reading down to somewhere near zero?

If you do some experimenting with your TDS meter, you'll note that your sediment filter and carbon block do very little to remove dissolved solids. So with your tap water at 400 ppm, you can measure the water at the “in” port on your RO membrane housing and you'll see it is still approximately 400 ppm.

The RO membrane is really the workhorse of the system. It removes most of the TDS, some membranes to a greater extent than others. For instance, 100 gpd Filmtec membranes have a rejection rate of 98% (i.e., they reject 98% of the dissolved solids in the feed water). So the purified water coming from your 100 gpd membrane would be about 8 ppm (a 98% reduction). The lifespan of an RO membrane is dependent upon how much water you run through it, and how “dirty” the water is. Membranes can function well for a year, two years, or more. To test the membrane, measure the TDS in the water coming into the membrane, and in the purified water (permeate) produced by the membrane. Compare that to the membrane’s advertised rejection rate, and to the same reading you recorded when the membrane was new. Membranes also commonly produce purified water more slowly as their function declines.

Additionally, don’t forget to sanitize the entire system at least once per year, and wash and lube your housing o-rings with food-grade silicone grease every filter change.

Russ
 
Wow , what great information! thank you. I'm on a well,so no chlorine. I used to use it twice a week but am having some issues and now use it only twice a month. How did you know my prefilter water was 400 ppm?? Had it for little over a year so ordering prefilters today.
 
Great info in this thread. Was looking to start using RO for brewing. I have an RO system under my kitchen sink but my new electric brew stand is in the garage next to my water softener. I was thinking to tee off of the pre-softener line and put in an RO or other recommended type system. Is there one that has a storage tank for 6-8 gallons, so I can accommodate one brew day of water without having to gather it beforehand? Thanks!
 
Great info in this thread. Was looking to start using RO for brewing. I have an RO system under my kitchen sink but my new electric brew stand is in the garage next to my water softener. I was thinking to tee off of the pre-softener line and put in an RO or other recommended type system. Is there one that has a storage tank for 6-8 gallons, so I can accommodate one brew day of water without having to gather it beforehand? Thanks!

First - you'll be better off if you feed SOFTENED water to the RO. No worries about the salt in the softened water - the RO will remove that.

You'll want a 14 gallon pressure tank if you want to store 6 to 8 gallons of RO water. There are some advantages of using an atmospheric (UNpressurized) storage tank we can discuss if you'd like.

If you want to make water on brew day, you could go for a fast membrane like a 100 gpd element. In most cases you'll get about 3 gallons per hour from that membrane.

Russ
 
I would go for the largest storage tank you can get. I just put in a 20 gallon tank and get maybe 13 gallons out. Enough for a brew day but it does take about a half hour to fill that high. It all depends what else you have on your system and what your pressure is set to.

Go big off the bat if you can. Re-doing something takes more time and money.
 
There are ways to increase the efficiency of the system (less water going to drain), and improve the purity of the water in the tank if you are using a pressurized tank. Assuming you have adequate feed water pressure, consider a permeate pump and a high pressure ASOV.
 
First - you'll be better off if you feed SOFTENED water to the RO. No worries about the salt in the softened water - the RO will remove that.

You'll want a 14 gallon pressure tank if you want to store 6 to 8 gallons of RO water. There are some advantages of using an atmospheric (UNpressurized) storage tank we can discuss if you'd like.

If you want to make water on brew day, you could go for a fast membrane like a 100 gpd element. In most cases you'll get about 3 gallons per hour from that membrane.

Russ

Thanks Russ! I like the idea of an unpressurized tank. Is there a float cutoff for that? Also, would it be unusual to tee it off the current RO system in the kitchen and run a line into the garage and keep the existing pressurized tank for kitchen drinking water?
 
Thanks Russ! I like the idea of an unpressurized tank. Is there a float cutoff for that? Also, would it be unusual to tee it off the current RO system in the kitchen and run a line into the garage and keep the existing pressurized tank for kitchen drinking water?
That's a fine way of configuring it. RO water-safe float valves:
https://www.buckeyehydro.com/float-valves-1/

Russ
 
Back
Top