Residual Sweetness...Why?

[mkukiela]

Please analyze this grain bill and help me understand why I have a fair amount of residual sweetness in this batch. Should have been 35 IBU but I can barely discern bitterness in this one. Mash temp 153 degrees

10.0 lb Pale Ale (US) 3 °L
0.5 lb Flaked Wheat 2 °L
0.5 lb Biscuit (BE) 23 °L
Hops
0.9 oz Perle (US) 60 min 7.8% AA
0.55 oz Amarillo (US) 30 min 9.3% AA
Yeast
California Ale Yeast White Labs WLP001 (w/1500mL Yeast Starter)
O.G. 1.061 F.G. 1.011

 

[meatcleaver]

with a fg of 1.011 & ibu's @ 45 per brewersfriend, I wouldn't expect this to be sweet.
in the future you could add a bit of dextrose to help it dry out a bit more, or...
what I would probably do is add a bit more perle up front to get your IBU, and double up on the Amarillo adding it closer to the end of the boil or after.
maybe the increase in hop flavor/aroma will will help with the perceived sweetness/maltiness.

 

[mblanks2]

Please analyze this grain bill and help me understand why I have a fair amount of residual sweetness in this batch. Should have been 35 IBU but I can barely discern bitterness in this one. Mash temp 153 degrees

10.0 lb Pale Ale (US) 3 °L
0.5 lb Flaked Wheat 2 °L
0.5 lb Biscuit (BE) 23 °L
Hops
0.9 oz Perle (US) 60 min 7.8% AA
0.55 oz Amarillo (US) 30 min 9.3% AA
Yeast
California Ale Yeast White Labs WLP001 (w/1500mL Yeast Starter)
O.G. 1.061 F.G. 1.011

Dropping your mash temp to 149*F may help. might get you in the single digits .004 - .006.

 

[Bosh]

Maybe you're getting bad hop utilization for some reason. Oxygen on the hops? Don't boil the hops in all of the water and used top-off water?

 

[modifier]

Did you overshoot your mash temp any bit? was the mash temp uniform thru the vessel? did you mash out?
Also how is your water?

 

[mkukiela]

I have never had a consistent mash temp throughout my mash. The bottom is always 2 to 3 degrees warmer than the temp in suspension. By the end of the mash it usually equalizes...but I am not sure what to do about that. I try stirring well without splashing too much but have never had a steady mash temp throughout the bed (top to bottom) of the mash.

 

[mkukiela]

Maybe you're getting bad hop utilization for some reason. Oxygen on the hops? Don't boil the hops in all of the water and used top-off water?

These were leftover hops from another recipe, though I store them refrigerated and in a Ziploc bag they were opened a few months prior to the brew. Could this be the problem?

I don't use top off water.

 

[Yooper]

No, probably not.

The reason is probably much simpler- 35 IBUs in a beer that has an OG of 1.061 is pretty darn low!

That's an IBU/SG ratio of .583- almost perfectly balanced. That means that it wouldn't be bitter at all, and many malty beers have a similar ratio. My "fizzy yellow beer", sort of a Budweiser/Miller summer beer, has an IBU/Sg ratio of .423, to give you an idea.

It's far more important to look at that balance rather than the actual number of IBUs. An IBU of 20 is fairly high in a beer that starts off with on OG of 1.037 (.530 IBU/SG ratio) while in a beer that starts with an OG of 1.050 it's not bitter at all- an IBU/SG ratio of .408. So that's the criteria to look at when deciding if a beer will be bitter, balanced, or more malty. The actual IBUs are secondary.

 

[mkukiela]

No, probably not.

The reason is probably much simpler- 35 IBUs in a beer that has an OG of 1.061 is pretty darn low!

That's an IBU/SG ratio of .583- almost perfectly balanced. That means that it wouldn't be bitter at all, and many malty beers have a similar ratio. My "fizzy yellow beer", sort of a Budweiser/Miller summer beer, has an IBU/Sg ratio of .423, to give you an idea.

It's far more important to look at that balance rather than the actual number of IBUs. An IBU of 20 is fairly high in a beer that starts off with on OG of 1.037 (.530 IBU/SG ratio) while in a beer that starts with an OG of 1.050 it's not bitter at all- an IBU/SG ratio of .408. So that's the criteria to look at when deciding if a beer will be bitter, balanced, or more malty. The actual IBUs are secondary.

Yooper, thank you for this information. Can you help me understand the math that goes into this ratio?

 

[ong]

Yooper, thank you for this information. Can you help me understand the math that goes into this ratio?

I think it's just IBU/(SG-1)*1000.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, thank you for this information. Can you help me understand the math that goes into this ratio?

Sure!

But remember..............even the best IBU calculators are only a best guestimate. Unless you test the beer and a lab shows XXXX IBUs, it's just the best guess you have. It's still pretty good, but that's why many brewers will stick with one formula or another. I know what "45 IBUs Tinseth" seems to be with my system- it could be 52 IBUs in the Rager scale. And when measured by a lab, it could be totally different. Still, with formulating recipes it's really the best tool available for balancing recipes between the hops and malt.

so the math is just a ratio- Say you have 30 IBUs (calculated). Then, take your OG and drop the 1.0 part. If we have a 1.048 beer, that's 48. Simply divide the IBUs by the gravity points. I get .625 from doing that. That means the ratio is .625.

Cheat sheet for ideas on the IBU/SG ratio in beer styles: http://homebrewmanual.com/media/beer-bitterness-ratio-chart-bu-gu.pdf

 

[JLeuck64]

Sure!

But remember..............even the best IBU calculators are only a best guestimate. Unless you test the beer and a lab shows XXXX IBUs, it's just the best guess you have. It's still pretty good, but that's why many brewers will stick with one formula or another. I know what "45 IBUs Tinseth" seems to be with my system- it could be 52 IBUs in the Rager scale. And when measured by a lab, it could be totally different. Still, with formulating recipes it's really the best tool available for balancing recipes between the hops and malt.

so the math is just a ratio- Say you have 30 IBUs (calculated). Then, take your OG and drop the 1.0 part. If we have a 1.048 beer, that's 48. Simply divide the IBUs by the gravity points. I get .625 from doing that. That means the ratio is .625.

Cheat sheet for ideas on the IBU/SG ratio in beer styles: http://homebrewmanual.com/media/beer-bitterness-ratio-chart-bu-gu.pdf

By Jove... I think I've got it!?

IBU's 32(Tinseth) divided by 53 (1.053 O.G.) = .6037 for Yooper's Oatmeal Stout!!! Thanks for the tip, I learn so much from these little nuggets ( ;

 

[Yooper]

By Jove... I think I've got it!?

IBU's 32(Tinseth) divided by 53 (1.053 O.G.) = .6037 for Yooper's Oatmeal Stout!!! Thanks for the tip, I learn so much from these little nuggets ( ;

And..............to throw yet another monkey wrench into this................

A dry stout will often have an IBU/SG ratio of .800 or so. That's because you want to balance the roasted malts, and the flavor is more roasted and dry than bitter from the bittering hops. And a super rich, malty beer may have a moderate IBU/SG ratio, contrary to how it seems when you drink it, because the Munich malt in the beer is malty and "feels" like the IBU/SG ratio is lower because of the strong maltiness (although not necessarily sweetness).

Entire books have been written about formulating beer recipes, so these explanations are a bit simplistic, but that's the basic gist of it.