Removing beer stone buildup in kettle

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Rev2010

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Never knew what the buildup was until I just got curious and looked it up. Apparently it's beer stone. Question I have is, can I use the same BLC cleaner that I use for my beer line and faucets, and do I just need to let it sit or will it require scrubbing? Pic below and thanks in advance.

kettle beerstone.jpg
 
works wonders on cleaning stainless. I just put some in, start a slow simmer, and wipe with a cloth. Comes off like calories in a marathon event.

edit - white vinegar

Spelling is alittle off this afternoon!
 
Just by coincidence, I filled up my kettle with water/pbw solution so I could circulate it through the new pump/therminator combo. Guess what? When I was done, all the beer stone stains in the kettle were gone. So, try a soak with PBW.
 
If vinegar took it off it wasn't beer stone. There are several formulations for removing beer stone but the one ingredient without which there can be no success is elbow grease and lots of it. That is why it is so important to get to it before it has a chance to deposit appreciably.
 
Is that stainless steel or aluminum?

Sorry, stainless steel. Was thinking about the BLC since I have it on hand and it's specifically for cleaning beer stone out of lines, faucets, and kegs. But good information here all around. Thanks everyone!


Rev.
 
Use Five Stars Acid #5 - then do a PBW soak and rinse.
Then send me the rest of the bottles... lol =;>

No seriously though - it is designed specifically to combat beer stone. Here is the tech sheet:
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Acid-5-Tech2.pdf

Here is their website page you need to look at:
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/breweries/craft-brewers/products/

Here is the page I know from doing homework on this website:
http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/wh...stone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/
 
If vinegar took it off it wasn't beer stone. There are several formulations for removing beer stone but the one ingredient without which there can be no success is elbow grease and lots of it. That is why it is so important to get to it before it has a chance to deposit appreciably.

Hmm, I could certainly be wrong, but everything I know about beer stone says otherwise. It is a bunch of mineral deposits - as opposed to organic buildup - which I believe is why soap/Oxy/PBW don't typically work (hasn't for me); you need an acid and not a base to clean it off.

Vinegar is an acid, which is why it works (in theory, I have never tried). Acid #5, Bar Keepers Friend, and my preference (Star San) are all acids as well which should work to get beer stone off.
 
Use Five Stars Acid #5 - then do a PBW soak and rinse.
Then send me the rest of the bottles... lol =;>

No seriously though - it is designed specifically to combat beer stone. Here is the tech sheet:
http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Acid-5-Tech2.pdf

Here is their website page you need to look at:
[/url]http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/breweries/craft-brewers/products/[/url]

Here is the page I know from doing homework on this website:
http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/wh...stone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/

Yep! The idea is to use an alkali (PBW) first, to get rid of the organic deposits, then burst rinse. Then use Acid #5 as an 'acid rinse' (or acid wash, if it's really bad), recirculate (or let sit), and then drain and burst rinse.

It works great! A brewer friend gives it to me, and it's like magic on beerstone.
 
Hmm, I could certainly be wrong, but everything I know about beer stone says otherwise. It is a bunch of mineral deposits - as opposed to organic buildup

Actually it consists of crystals of calcium oxalate embedded in a protein matrix. That's why you need the nitric acid (oxidizes the protein) so the phosphoric acid can access the oxalate and dissolve it.

The traditional formula for attacking beerstone involves cleaning off all the organic matter you can get with strong caustic and then attacking the beerstone with the nitric/phosphoric mix. I use 200 mL each of concentrated (tech grade) nitric and phosphoric after hot caustic and circulate for about 15 minutes. This is entirely consistent with the instructions for the product referred to in #8.
 
AJ and Yooper - thank you for the nod. =;>

As I am doing my homework on this subject at the same time this was posted I thought I would share what I just learned:

I just got off the phone with Five Star Chemicals and they are saying that 90% of their clients are now doing an Acid #6 wash, then burst rinse, then SaniClean wash to help save money.

They are saying that the Acid#6 has a detergent effect in it. The mix for Acid #6 is of 15% Phosphoric acid and 20% Nitric acid; while the Acid #5 is 6% Phosphoric acid and 38% Nitric acid.

Apparently this is cheaper than doing a PBW wash, rinse, then Acid#5, rinse, then SaniClean method. Or even just a PBW, rinse, SaniClean method at the base line and doing an Acid#5 wash every 6 months.

PBW is about ~$120 for a 50 lb pail.
While Acid #6 is about ~$65 for 5 gallon pail.
 
Great Thread! I am just starting to get some of this on my pot. I've been using Softscrub which as worked for the most part but I have noticed this is beginning to build up. I will be using this advice this weekend. Thanks!
 
Actually it consists of crystals of calcium oxalate embedded in a protein matrix. That's why you need the nitric acid (oxidizes the protein) so the phosphoric acid can access the oxalate and dissolve it.

The traditional formula for attacking beerstone involves cleaning off all the organic matter you can get with strong caustic and then attacking the beerstone with the nitric/phosphoric mix. I use 200 mL each of concentrated (tech grade) nitric and phosphoric after hot caustic and circulate for about 15 minutes. This is entirely consistent with the instructions for the product referred to in #8.

Absolutely - my point was that an acid based solution was needed, and that vinegar (which I believe is acetic acid?) would probably work for people that don't have access to Acid #5/6, even though I'm sure that's what works the best. Star san worked for me too, although I let it soak for a long time and then had to do a very light scrub to get it off.
 
I think the point you are missing is that the acid (or one of the acids - in this case the nitric acid) must be a strong oxidizing agent. Vinegar, which is not an oxidizing acid, nor phosphoric nor sulfuric (unless it is hot) nor hydrochloric acids, none of which are oxidizing acids, will not break down the protein matrix and will not remove beerstone.
 
OK everyone. So I'd procrastinated long enough and finally decided to try using StarSan as I've seen suggested many times searching around. I used 4x the concentration of the usual used for sanitizing. So, I used 2oz StarSan in 2.5G of water. I rolled the solution up around the kettle walls a couple of times to coat them and then I let it soak for about 30 minutes, no longer. I could see even after a few minutes the solution taking on the color of the beerstone. After about 15-20 minutes I took a regular dishwashing scrub sponge and used the scrub end to rub one area of the kettle wall and it came right off and onto the sponge. So after 30 minutes I dumped it out, then did my usual oxiclean free sponge scrub and it all came right off. Here's the clean picture. Kicking myself for not doing this sooner! LOL.

kettle cleaned.jpg
 
I picked up 5 used kegs and they have horrible beerstone build up in the bottom half
I will try the starsan trick, thanks!
 
OK everyone. So I'd procrastinated long enough and finally decided to try using StarSan as I've seen suggested many times searching around. I used 4x the concentration of the usual used for sanitizing. So, I used 2oz StarSan in 2.5G of water. I rolled the solution up around the kettle walls a couple of times to coat them and then I let it soak for about 30 minutes, no longer. I could see even after a few minutes the solution taking on the color of the beerstone. After about 15-20 minutes I took a regular dishwashing scrub sponge and used the scrub end to rub one area of the kettle wall and it came right off and onto the sponge. So after 30 minutes I dumped it out, then did my usual oxiclean free sponge scrub and it all came right off. Here's the clean picture. Kicking myself for not doing this sooner! LOL.

If it came off that easily it wasn't beer stone!
 
If it came off that easily it wasn't beer stone!

And how do you figure that? It fit every description of beer stone one could find, and it came off just like suggested it would. And, why then would something like BLC be sold to remove beer stone from beer lines if it's that much harder to remove? It would be more helpful to actually state what you think it was rather than post a response that does nothing but challenge what I did to remove my buildup and what others have also had success with. ie: if you don't think it was beer stone than what do you think it was and what would you think is actually required to remove beer stone?

All I know is I read up a bunch, even posts on probrewer, and I've seen the same Acid suggestion to remove beer stone buildup and it worked. Either way I'm happy at the results regardless. :)


Rev.
 
And how do you figure that?
Bitter personal experience and reports of others.


It fit every description of beer stone one could find, and it came off just like suggested it would.
Most descriptions of it at least hint at how difficult it is to remove.

And, why then would something like BLC be sold to remove beer stone from beer lines if it's that much harder to remove?
If you treat things like lines and brewing equipment before it can get a foothold (for example I CIP my fermenters with phosphoric and nitric acid after each brew and my kegs after every couple of fillings) then acid (including nitric) is sufficient. If it is allowed to take hold though a LOT of scrubbing is required. Note that the products being recommended here are blends of oxidizing nitric and non oxidizing phosphoric acid.

It would be more helpful to actually state what you think it was rather than post a response that does nothing but challenge what I did to remove my buildup and what others have also had success with.
And which part of my post challenged your method? Touchy, touchy!

... if you don't think it was beer stone than what do you think it was
How in heavens name would you expect me to know that? Don't know if you've ever done any qualitative analysis but finding out what an unknown isn't can be an integral part of the search to find out what it is. If what you used got it off, why to you care what it is? From the looks of it I'd say that it is calcium carbonate embedded in a sugar protein matrix. If acid took it off w/o the oxidizing agent (StatSan is, AFAIK, phosphoric acid and DDBSA) and heavy scrubbing that would be my guess but of course I really can't tell much from a photo. If you have a microscope calcium oxalate crystals are easily recognized. It is oxidized by potassium permanganate.

and what would you think is actually required to remove beer stone?
I've already answered that in this thread on this very page (Nos 11 and 16). Besides the oxidizing agent and the acid the other ingredient, elbow grease, was mentioned in No. 5.


All I know is I read up a bunch, even posts on probrewer, and I've seen the same Acid suggestion to remove beer stone buildup and it worked. Either way I'm happy at the results regardless. :)

Then why the complaining?
 
Then why the complaining?

Not complaining really, was just making the point that just saying "if it came off that easily it wasn't beerstone" isn't very helpful, it just basically says I'm calling something incorrectly. From what I've looked up and read it appears many people call this beerstone so there must be a lot of incorrect assumptions out there to what this is. But all that aside, the stronger concentration of StarSan worked just as recommended whereas before I had tried scrubbing, though with Oxyclean which apparently is useless against this buildup no matter how hard I scrubbed. Perhaps it isn't actually beerstone, I can't say as I haven't analyzed the material, but this type of buildup appears to be very common in brewing equipment and at least I now know an easy way to remove it.


Rev.
 
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