Red Ale didn't turn out how I thought it would

[skarz]

So I followed a recipe called "hoppy red ale" and I just took a sample after 14 days in the fermenter. I'm a little disappointed that it's not as red as I thought it would be. It's more of a brown / golden yellow. My second confusion is the fact that it tastes very similar to my first recipe, although slightly darker / roasted. So looking at these recipes, why didn't the second one turn out as red and why does it taste so much like the first one?

First recipe (Pale Ale)
1/2lb crystal 20l
1/2lb American 2-row
5.5lbs DME
2oz Centennial hops
2oz Cascade hops
US05

Second recipe (Hoppy Red Ale)
1lb CaraVienna 35
1/2lb Crystal 55
1/8lb Roastbar 500
6lbs DME
2oz Centennial hops
1oz Amarillo hops
1oz Amarillo hops (dry hopped)
Imperial A07

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What type of DME (pilsen? blonde? light?, ...)?

 

[skarz]

What type of DME (pilsen? blonde? light?, ...)?

I believe the they were both light dry malt extract.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I believe the they were both light dry malt extract.

Did you add all the DME at the start of the boil? What were the timings for the hop additions?

 

[skarz]

Did you add all the DME at the start of the boil? What were the timings for the hop additions?

Both recipes had the DME added at the beginning of the boil. Also the hoppy red ale called for liquid light malt extract but I used DME instead. As for hops,

APA:

• 1/2 ounce Centennial hops—60 minutes
• 1 ounce Cascade hops—15 minutes
• 1 ounce Centennial hops—15 minutes
• 1 ounce Cascade hops at flame out
• 1/2 ounce Centennial hops at flame out

HRA:

• 1 ounce Centennial Hops—60 minutes
• 1 ounce Centennial Hops—15 minutes
• 1 ounce Amarillo Hops—5 minutes
• 1 ounce Amarillo Hops—for dry hopping in secondary

 

[madscientist451]

Get a BIAB bag and quit using extract. Here's a thread about getting that red color:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/how-can-i-get-a-really-red-ale.288160/

Here's an all grain hoppy red ale recipe, but there are many more around:

https://blog.eckraus.com/hoppy-red-ale-beer-recipe

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Came across a thread recently where someone suggested that Cascade and Amarillo can have a similar taste. The "Hopslist" web site seems to support this as it suggests the each (Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial) could be a substitute for the other three.

 

[SEndorf]

Your recipe is not really conducive to a rich red color.
A truly red ale is a homebrewers challenge.
I have had great success with German Red X malt.

 

[bkboiler]

thats a lot of hops for a red (even one that is "hoppy"). Seems that may be a reason you're perceiving the similarity. Red Ales often are very malty... So I second the suggestion to go get BIAB bag.
My last red ale I followed Jamil Zainaischeff's recipe and it was the best red ale I've had (and I've made two other recipes from HBT, they will remain nameless).
Also, will point out that a in my personal experience, I've had several hoppy imperial red Ales from breweries that make world class IPAs, and their red Ales arent the best. My conclusion: red Ales and hops are hard to pair! It can be done, but maybe it needs different hops than a pale ale?

I would ask yourself the questions as you're considering the recipe as if you're pairing foods:
-Would you want mango and tangerine with caramel?
-Would you want tropical fruit with your bread?

Sometimes malty beers love DANK hops! Yeah, I said it...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Both recipes had the DME added at the beginning of the boil. Also the hoppy red ale called for liquid light malt extract but I used DME instead.

Using a black malt to make a red colored beer often involves a bit of experimentation. Once the correct amount is "dailed in", changing other ingredients can have an impact on the final color of the beer.

If this recipe started as an "all-grain" recipe and was converted (probably by someone else) to DME/LME, do you know what color was actually produced (recipe software SRM estimates don't matter at this point) by either the all-gran recipe or the DME/LME recipe?

Beer clarity also has an impact on the perceived color of the beer.

 

[skarz]

Get a BIAB bag and quit using extract. Here's a thread about getting that red color:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/how-can-i-get-a-really-red-ale.288160/

Here's an all grain hoppy red ale recipe, but there are many more around:

https://blog.eckraus.com/hoppy-red-ale-beer-recipe

Heh, I'm working on it. A all-in-one BIAB system isn't too far out of my price range so I'm really just debating getting one of those and being done with the stovetop altogether. I have a 220 outlet in my garage so it's like it's meant to be...

Came across a thread recently where someone suggested that Cascade and Amarillo can have a similar taste. The "Hopslist" web site seems to support this as it suggests the each (Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial) could be a substitute for the other three.

Wow. So overall I'm starting to realize I brewed almost identical beers just with slightly darker malts with #2. Well at any rate it was interesting to see how the different ingredients changed the color, flavor, and aroma...

 

[coonmanx]

I got a good red color by using Melanoidin malt along with Carared and Caraamber. Can't remember exactly how much Melanoidin I used but if it isn't red enough you can always add more. I believe I used a half pound of it. Same goes for the Carared. Maybe I could look for that recipe. It's been a while.

 

[coonmanx]

Actually The beer that I made using Melanoidin, Carared and Caraamber turned out to be more golden in color and I wrote down the recipe as a Golden Amber Ale. The one that probably came out the closest to a genuine red ale had 3/4 lb. of Crystal 40 and 3/4 lb. of Crystal 60. Just thought I would share. Some red ale recipes also have a touch of roasted barley as wll. I just didn't want to use any of that.