Recommendations for a tankless water heater

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marcb

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Hi, I do large batches (avg 20 gallons) and want to filter water through a tankless water heater that can provide on demand hot water (160 degrees) for mashing and hlt to shorten my brew day and hopefully double batch. Anyone have any suggestions for me? This will be dedicated for brewing in the garage.


Thanks!
 

FredTheNuke

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Seriously you are looking for a 100 degree lift above ground water that is 1 very powerful heater
 

FredTheNuke

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The biggest rheem makes the RTE 27 takes 112 amps at 240 volts to produce a 100 degree lift at 1.84 gallons per minute.
 

Gartywood

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Is he looking for gas or electric is the question. A 200,000 but or so gas fied tankless heater will make 5 GPM at 70 degree rise. I'd think you would be able to get a good flow at 100 degree delta t. You would need a commercial model to allow an output that high.
 
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marcb

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I have normal house gas line and a 240v 50A circuit so either gas or electric. I've looked at several models, just looking for some advice before I plunk down 1K + on a heater. Heating 60 degree ground water now takes a long time with my propane rig so anything would be an improvement. An endless flow of 160 degree water would allow me to go nuts on brew day with back to back brews and cleanup.... I'm totally open to either gas or electric and looking to see if anyone has any experience with brewing with these. Thanks!
 

OMJ

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People on the site have made rims tubes that were able to heat sparge water to 170. That would probably be a lot cheaper option than a commercial tankless.
 
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marcb

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OMJ said:
People on the site have made rims tubes that were able to heat sparge water to 170. That would probably be a lot cheaper option than a commercial tankless.
I thought about that and it is still an option, for that to be viable though I'd need to add casters on my brewstand (it's wheelbarrow style now) to haul it outside as there is no way I could move it with two full 26 gallon kettles on top with a rims setup. I like the concept though. I would also need a BCS or timer to kick it off early enough with pumps to get it to temp by the time I wanted to brew.
 

tochsner

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I have a Bosch tankless water heater that runs on gas. I have the flush kit installed in the bottom so I can run a hose from a tap through a carbon filter to the inlet side. I then run a food grade vinyl reinforced hose from the outlet side to my brew kettle. I have endless hot water that way. The only drawback is the highest I can set my heater is 140* and I wasn't able to find a household size heater that would do more than that. But 140* water instead of 55* water shortened my brew day quite a bit.
 
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marcb

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tochsner said:
I have a Bosch tankless water heater that runs on gas. I have the flush kit installed in the bottom so I can run a hose from a tap through a carbon filter to the inlet side. I then run a food grade vinyl reinforced hose from the outlet side to my brew kettle. I have endless hot water that way. The only drawback is the highest I can set my heater is 140* and I wasn't able to find a household size heater that would do more than that. But 140* water instead of 55* water shortened my brew day quite a bit.
That's exactly the sort of feedback I'm looking for, would you mind sharing the model number?
 

Tondi007

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I second Marcb's request. I am looking to do something similar.

Did you install the flush kit & hose outlet yourself? What does that look like?

I rent and old victorian in San Francisco. Wiring is shot so I can't use heating elements above 1,500w. Looking to use my already installed nat. gas tankless to speed things up.
 

humann_brewing

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I have normal house gas line and a 240v 50A circuit so either gas or electric. I've looked at several models, just looking for some advice before I plunk down 1K + on a heater. Heating 60 degree ground water now takes a long time with my propane rig so anything would be an improvement. An endless flow of 160 degree water would allow me to go nuts on brew day with back to back brews and cleanup.... I'm totally open to either gas or electric and looking to see if anyone has any experience with brewing with these. Thanks!
I visited Yakima Craft Brewing company and I know they were using a tankless water heater for their brewing water, and it was coming out at the 170 range.

You could try contacting them to see what kind of rig they have. They are doing like 3bbl batches at least a couple of years ago they were when I was there.
 
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My sister has a commercial Rinnai model (propane) that does a heck of a job for her home AND her honey extracting facility. I'll check the model # next time I'm up there. I thing you change the output temp with jumpers...so that could be a pain.
 

Bsquared

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I've looked in to this fairly extensively regrading Rinnai heaters. I have a RL75 natural gas unit. It requires a dedicated 3/4" water line input and a 3/4" dedicated gas connection, plus a 20A 120VAC connection.

The residential controllers will limit you to 140ºF, but you can get a commercial controller for these units and get 165-185ºF water depending on the unit. for my unit the RL75 my max water temp is 165. with the RL94 I believe you can get water out at 185º

My BIG disclaimer, is that it is really easy to forget you have the water heater cranked up past 140, which can result in very bad burns if your SWMBO decides to take a shower when you are brewing.
 

humann_brewing

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I have a Bosch tankless water heater that runs on gas. I have the flush kit installed in the bottom so I can run a hose from a tap through a carbon filter to the inlet side. I then run a food grade vinyl reinforced hose from the outlet side to my brew kettle. I have endless hot water that way. The only drawback is the highest I can set my heater is 140* and I wasn't able to find a household size heater that would do more than that. But 140* water instead of 55* water shortened my brew day quite a bit.
That is an awesome idea, we are building a home and it comes with a Rinnai tankless water heater so I am finding out what model it is and see what I can do. Most likely it is the lowest one by them being "contractor grade" but we'll see
 

barryfine

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I found this propane powered tankless hot water for $200 and ordered it. It's normally $280 so I couldn't resist.

http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=219061279

Here is the manufacturer's website.

http://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l10-tankless-water-heater/

It looks like you need this extra part to get over 140, but it was only $10

http://www.eccotemp.com/l10-overtemp-sensor/

Hopefully it will come before the weekend and I can do some testing and report back. I don't expect to be able to sparge directly from it, but it should at least be able to give my HLT a big head start.
 

mikescooling

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Can't you guys turn you water heater up and get the same affect? Just don't forget to turn it back!
 
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I'll be interested in how that little tankless heater does, so please check back in when you get 'er rolling. I get that it is for a "cabin" but it is too bad there isn't an option to hook up to juice rather than just having a D cell-powered ignition. Also kind of annoying to be "outdoor installation only." Still for $200 that looks like a pretty easy solution for you.
 

barryfine

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I'll be interested in how that little tankless heater does, so please check back in when you get 'er rolling. I get that it is for a "cabin" but it is too bad there isn't an option to hook up to juice rather than just having a D cell-powered ignition. Also kind of annoying to be "outdoor installation only." Still for $200 that looks like a pretty easy solution for you.
I'll definitely report back my findings. The D batteries probably last for a really long time since they are only used for ignition. The advantage with this, is I can be mobile with it. I can use if for camping as well as brewing. I don't think I'm going to do a permanent installation, but rather just build a stand for it. I'm sure I can run it inside my garage with the door open, just like I do my burners.
 
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marcb

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Still a work in progress but I pulled the trigger on a used tankless water heater setup on CL last week, I will post updates but I am expecting around 3GPM of 160 degree water out of this thing. It is a propane Noritz nr66-OD, we'll see how it works out. Planning on mounting it to a cart and bolting on a water filter as well. Net is that I am hoping to shave off an hour or so off of my brew day and have always available hot water for cleanup.

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marcb

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Stitched up most of this today and with the factory setting was getting about 3GPM of 140 degree water. Adding the Walter filter this week and a ball valve for flow control. I need to call the Noritz tech support to find out how to set it for 160 and I will be all good. Total cost on this is about $600 for the used heater, cart and parts but given the endless supply of hot water I expect to shave an hour plus off of brew days and no longer need a bucket heater for cleaning water so it is worth it for me!

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marcb

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Used this today to wash and sanitize kegs today. This thing is super impressive and runs really quiet. Will have new water filter assembly tomorrow. Found out today that 1/2" silicon tubing was a bad choice to put under muni water pressure : ). Made a huge water weenie that I was able to shut off before it exploded 140 degree water all over the place...... I need some hi temp reinforced hose for the outlet that can handle the pressure as I want to be able to control output at the kettle. Also fired it up tonight to scrub my conical with no issues!

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barryfine

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Used this today to wash and sanitize kegs today. This thing is super impressive and runs really quiet. Will have new water filter assembly tomorrow. Found out today that 1/2" silicon tubing was a bad choice to put under muni water pressure : ). Made a huge water weenie that I was able to shut off before it exploded 140 degree water all over the place...... I need some hi temp reinforced hose for the outlet that can handle the pressure as I want to be able to control output at the kettle. Also fired it up tonight to scrub my conical with no issues!
I really like your cart solution! I think I might steal your idea! Unfortunately, the one I purchased refuses to light and is driving me nuts.

I did figure out a good solution for a hose that can handle high pressure and hot water. Stainless Steel washing machine hose. I wouldn't put wort through it because it'd be tough to sanitize the braids, but I think it's perfect for just hot water.

btw, I love the term, "water weenie". I've made that mistake before and it's a perfect description.
 
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marcb

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barryfine said:
I really like your cart solution! I think I might steal your idea! Unfortunately, the one I purchased refuses to light and is driving me nuts.

I did figure out a good solution for a hose that can handle high pressure and hot water. Stainless Steel washing machine hose. I wouldn't put wort through it because it'd be tough to sanitize the braids, but I think it's perfect for just hot water.

btw, I love the term, "water weenie". I've made that mistake before and it's a perfect description.
Thanks! I'm hoping to move this concept to a new brewstand one of these days with a tankless attached to a stainless cart with a couple of 50 gallon kettles for mash and boil kettle. I think your unit is the eccotemp, I looked at those and was tempted but decided to go with a used larger name brand unit instead because of all the bad press those things get on amazon plus the flow rate was less than I was after. Has it ever fired? If so I read that they have some protection circuit that cuts it out after twenty minutes to keep it from melting.
 

Aschecte

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I sell tankless water heaters for a living and rep for a large tankless company. There are a few factors to consider... #1 where in the country are you ? you need to consider what is called a delta T which simply means if you have 50 degree ground water and want to heat to 160 degrees you have a 110 degree delta T. This effects how much continous capacity the water heater will produce. A very general rule of thumb is that in the north east you will get somewhere between 4-5 gallons a minute in the south these things rock and can produce upwards of 9 gallons of water as their delta T is so low and they may have a 70 degree ground water temp. Also by federal safety laws to go over 135 degrees you need to get a master controller additionally that will allow you to go hotter. This is to prevent scalding. Lastly whichevef brand you choose do not believe the advertised continous production label do the delta T and look at the curve charts they provide on the website you may need more than one tankless. Some good brands to look at are Rannai #1 ... #2 noritz... #3.... for economy bosch or takagi though you get what you pay for in this category. best of luck pm me if you have any questions.
 

barryfine

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Thanks! I'm hoping to move this concept to a new brewstand one of these days with a tankless attached to a stainless cart with a couple of 50 gallon kettles for mash and boil kettle. I think your unit is the eccotemp, I looked at those and was tempted but decided to go with a used larger name brand unit instead because of all the bad press those things get on amazon plus the flow rate was less than I was after. Has it ever fired? If so I read that they have some protection circuit that cuts it out after twenty minutes to keep it from melting.
It has never fired. I checked the protection circuit and even bypassed with no success. Unfortunately, I slacked on troubleshooting and now I'm past the initial 30 days and getting it repaired becomes more difficult. It's either a faulty regulator or solenoid, just haven't had time to work on it more. I really don't want to ship it back to them for repairs.
 

Bsquared

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I know with my Tankless, it requires a 3/4 independent gas line because it will not fire unless it detects adequate pressure of the incoming NG. Have you looked in to this for your heater?
 
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marcb

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Final working unit, for cleaning I bypass the filter and on brew days I loop through them for crystal clear beer! This thing works like a champ!

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barryfine

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That looks like a great setup! Just be sure that you're using drinking water safe garden hose so you don't get any chemicals leaching into your water.

When you say your loop your beer through your filters on your brew day, are you just talking about your water or are you filtering your wort?
 
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marcb

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barryfine said:
That looks like a great setup! Just be sure that you're using drinking water safe garden hose so you don't get any chemicals leaching into your water.

When you say your loop your beer through your filters on your brew day, are you just talking about your water or are you filtering your wort?
I use NSF hoses for rv water supply and no, I just filter my brewing water, not my cleaning water and definitely not my beer!
 
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marcb

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In action, this may very well be my favorite piece of brewing equipment to date!

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MaxOut

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marcb said:
In action, this may very well be my favorite piece of brewing equipment to date!
I agree 100% by far the best money I've spent on my home brewery. Congrats!
 
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marcb

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I agree 100% by far the best money I've spent on my home brewery. Congrats!
Thanks! Now as with everything else I build - I'm looking to go bigger! I need more capacity and higher temp (180!) for a two kettle 50 gallon system that I will be building that will have one of these in place of the HLT. I will also be designing a custom filtration system with UV filtering.... Thank God my wife is a saint!
 
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marcb

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marcb said:
Thanks! Now as with everything else I build - I'm looking to go bigger! I need more capacity and higher temp (180!) for a two kettle 50 gallon system that I will be building that will have one of these in place of the HLT. I will also be designing a custom filtration system with UV filtering.... Thank God my wife is a saint!
Perspective

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