Recirculation filter idea...

[The Pol]

So I am into this recirculation cooling thing. Here is my issue, I want to be able to catch hops (pellet) and break material during the recirc to help clear the wort.

I do NOT want to place a strainer on my 1/2" pickup tube because I DO NOT want to restrict the flow to the pump (flow rate).

So, here is my idea:

Utilizing my 1/2" return line to the kettle for the whirlpool cooling, I would use a SS clamp to clamp a polyester paint strainer bag to the return line. Basically the return line would return the wort to the kettle through this bag, thus filtiner the hops and break out.

I have found the parts at McMaster Carr to do this. The polyester bag is a 1 gallon bag. The opening size is 530 microns... will this do?

 

[doggage]

I'll be curious to see how you end up doing this. I've been setting my return line inside a couple 5-gallon paint strainers (doubled up) and it does okay. I'd like something with a little finer mesh, though. One thought I'd have is that one gallon might be a little too small of a bag. When I pull out the bags, they've collected quite a bit, and these are not the same bags I use for hops and other additions.

 

[Beermaker]

Actually there is a post about this. Its called the Sludge Sack.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ss-braid-copper-tube-bazooka-tube-42726/

 

[The Pol]

Maybe I should go with a nylon bag?

The issue is this as well. I cant find anything but 1 gallon and 5 gallon bags. I cant do a 5 gallon bag, too large. Maybe 1 gallon wont work? I need to get something rigged up in 2 weeks time.

 

[Coastarine]

I did something like this once and I'm trying to remember the details. I have this memory of holding nearly a full five gallon batch of wort in a mesh bag, which is something I would have previously though to be impossible. Why can't I remember what the heck I did...

 

[The Pol]

Some nylon bags are 75 microns... wow. I will have to see some stores tomorrow and see what I can do.

I really want to be able to run the wort back into the kettle, through the bag... I can suck pellet hops through my plumbing and into the bag no problem. I just need a decent way to catch some of this stuff to simplify my day and reduce losses to hops and trub.

I never played with this much before, but now that I am recirculating the wort, Id love to make the pump work for me and filter out as much junk as I can in the process.

 

[Yorg]

I like your idea in principle, but when I whirlpool, the vast majority of material stays in the centre, and I can't see significant benefit from doing what you are suggesting - its just another thing to wash from my point of view.
Are you sure you are getting a good whirlpool?

 

[The Pol]

I like your idea in principle, but when I whirlpool, the vast majority of material stays in the centre, and I can't see significant benefit from doing what you are suggesting - its just another thing to wash from my point of view.
Are you sure you are getting a good whirlpool?

You see, whenever I have whirlpooled, I mean in the past 4 years... it has never collected in the center. It is just a gooey mess that settles to the bottom, it is not firm enough to "collect in the center".

I have thought about drawing my wort from the side of the kettle to assist in leaving the junk behind. Maybe I will try this as well.

Of course, in the past I have just set my pickup about 1" above the bottom of the kettle and just drawn out the rest, leaving much of the junk behind. I would just like to try something else, explore a little, try something new.

 

[JKoravos]

I have the same comment as Yorg. When I whirlpool, I get a very dense cone of trub in the center of the kettle. I used to just manually whirlpool with my spoon, but since I;ve gone to recirc chilling, it seems to be even better (I still whirlpool with the spoon for a minute or two at the beginning of the chill). Some stuff, mostly break, still gets through at the end of the transfer, but very little hop matter gets pulled out of the kettle.

 

[johnnyc]

For me its same principal different application. I drain from my keggle into a ale pail, to check volume before going into my carboy, lined with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. It collects a ton of cold break and pellet hops debris. It clogs up pretty quickly and I basically have to sanitize my hands and roll the bag around to get the wort to drain through. Based on this I think a gallon bag w/ the same filtering would stop up really quickly.

 

[The Pol]

I have the same comment as Yorg. When I whirlpool, I get a very dense cone of trub in the center of the kettle. I used to just manually whirlpool with my spoon, but since I;ve gone to recirc chilling, it seems to be even better (I still whirlpool with the spoon for a minute or two at the beginning of the chill). Some stuff, mostly break, still gets through at the end of the transfer, but very little hop matter gets pulled out of the kettle.

This is great and good... and would work well with the new 1/2" pickup I plan to use to pull wort from the edge of the kettle, but... how do you get a dense cone? Mine is just mush, wayyyy too soupy to form a cone. So the question is, how do you get a dense cone?

 

[Bobby_M]

I have tried this with the 5 gallon strainer bags at Lowes and the entire thing blows up like a wort filled balloon. Every hole in the mesh gets clogged. In order to remove the bag and release the wort back into the kettle, you have to scrape the sides and wait.

I think the cone forms well when there is nothing obstructing the whirlpool. When using an IC, I think you have to remove the IC and keep the spin going for another 5 minutes. Of course, then the pickup tube has to be offset.

 

[beerocd]

Go natural and use a hopback as your filter.

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

I have tried this with the 5 gallon strainer bags at Lowes and the entire thing blows up like a wort filled balloon. Every hole in the mesh gets clogged. In order to remove the bag and release the wort back into the kettle, you have to scrape the sides and wait.

I think the cone forms well when there is nothing obstructing the whirlpool. When using an IC, I think you have to remove the IC and keep the spin going for another 5 minutes. Of course, then the pickup tube has to be offset.

I dont have an IC though. I dont have a chiller at all in my kettle. My pickup will soon collect at the edge of the kettle. I heve never been able to get a cone that people speak of. IC or not... the break all settles, but there is no cone, just a thick layer of mush.

 

[flyangler18]

So the question is, how do you get a dense cone?

The wort needs to enter the kettle on recirc in a way that complements the whirlpool i.e an curved entry. The dip tube needs to match the curve of the kettle as well, or it interferes with the whirlpooling action.

 

[The Pol]

Go natural and use a hopback as your filter.

-OCD

Wouldnt this require leaf hops?

 

[JKoravos]

I agree that obstructions may be an issue. I'm recircing through a CFC, so there is really nothing in the kettle to obstruct the whirlpool.

I've actually scrapped my CFC since my last batch and for my next batch I'm going to be using an IC, so I'll be able to give first hand commentary on the difference between the two.

 

[The Pol]

The wort needs to enter the kettle on recirc in a way that complements the whirlpool i.e an curved entry. The dip tube needs to match the curve of the kettle as well, or it interferes with the whirlpooling action.

So everyone that whirlpools has a curved dip tube that runs along the side of the kettle?

My wort return line does run along the side of the kettle, promoting the whirlpool.

I am getting a great idea...

I use LocLine extensively in my rig, because it is infinitely adjustable. Remove the copper dip tube and use a short length of LocLine for the pickup instead.

This will allow me to collect wort from the edge of the kettle to help promote the "cone", give me infinite adjustability. When I am doing my CIP I can then re-adjust it to the center bottom of the kettle to suck out all of the junk.

Oh... this is getting good.

 

[JKoravos]

I dont have an IC though. I dont have a chiller at all in my kettle. My pickup will soon collect at the edge of the kettle. I heve never been able to get a cone that people speak of. IC or not... the break all settles, but there is no cone, just a thick layer of mush.

I think you just need to up the RPM of the whirlpool. For the first couple minutes after flame out I get it going to the point where the wort is almost coming up over the edge of the kettle. Your wort return definitely has to be tangential, but I'm assuming that's the case.

My pickup tube isn't curved along the side of the kettle. It has an elbow that faces straight down.

 

[The Pol]

The problem I had this past week is this.

#1. My new closed wort cooling system did NOT work well with the SS scrubby that I used on my system previously to help filter the wort. There is to much obstruction and it would not feed the hungry pump.

#2. My current dip tube runs to the center of the kettle bottom, though it can be rotated UP, it is still in the center. Where the tip of the cone is...

#3. Since my pickup tube was in the center of the kettle, it was constanty sucking the break and hop material up and re-introducing it to the kettle during the closed system whirlpool cooling... tearind down any cone I was creating.

I think that by using a fully adjustable pickup that I can not only help in the elimination of hop and trub in the wort by recirculating only the clearest wort. But I will also be pulling from the edge of the kettle when I pump to the fermentor... and when I do CIP, I can adjust it to pull from the bottom center of the kettle to clean it out.

I think I have a plan.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I think once you remove your pick-up tube from the center it is going to help you. I just put a stainless 90 on the inside for my return for the whirlpool. Building my system, but works great with water testing. I'm putting my pick-up tube to the edge of my kettle in the direction of the whirlpool. I think the entering of the whirlpool and the assistance of the exiting wort with the pick-up tube will get you there. Removing it for the center is going to make a big difference. I used to whirlpool with a spoon and had the same trouble until I moved my pickup to the edge of the kettle. I got the 90 idea from wayne1's build here

 

[ibbones]

I think that by using a fully adjustable pickup that I can not only help in the elimination of hop and trub in the wort by recirculating only the clearest wort. But I will also be pulling from the edge of the kettle when I pump to the fermentor... and when I do CIP, I can adjust it to pull from the bottom center of the kettle to clean it out.

I think I have a plan.

I am getting LOTS of ideas on this thread but I want pictures of this. It sounds like it's the easiest to do.
I just acquired a keggle and have not used it yet. Waiting for valves but now I am thinking.....

 

[The Pol]

I am getting LOTS of ideas on this thread but I want pictures of this. It sounds like it's the easiest to do.
I just acquired a keggle and have not used it yet. Waiting for valves but now I am thinking.....

The great thing about this is the adjustability. You can pull wort from anywhere in the kettle... which will allow you to reduce the amount of hops and break material in the fermentor, it can also be repositioned to draw from the lowest point for easy CIP cleaning.

I think this is where I am going.

 

[The Pol]

This will be completed today. I have on hand a TON of plumbing parts from projects and leftovers from prior mods to my rig. Turns out I have extra 1/2" LocLine and fittings for it here. I will have a couple photos posted later today.

Looks like it is going to be ready!

 

[The Pol]

Cool, it is operational.

The 1/2" pickup improved my flow rate for kettle recirc. by 30%.

It can be curved around to pick up from the side of the kettle, at any level I desire for kettle cooling and draining.

It can then be repositioned to the center of the kettle and draw right off the bottom center for CIP applications so that I dont leave anything in the kettle.

NICE!!

 

[Dog House Brew]

Lets see this awesome contraption. Lockline, I must look it up

 

[The Pol]

Photos downloading now..

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think the main thing for a good whirlpool it to allow it to stand completely still for a minimum of 20 minutes. I think 30 is really needed though on my system at least. Before that the particles have not formed a cone or compacted to the bottom enough to be helpful. I think your design is a good idea.

I fear the plastic in the boil, but that is just me, I have a recognized problem with that and am seeking treatment... not really.

 

[The Pol]

Dont fear the LocLine...

Ever boiled that vinyl hose that people like to use, then cooled the water and drank it? Tastes like vinyl, yum.

Ever boiled LocLine and then cooled the water and drank it? Tastes like water.

Here are the photos.

 

[wildwest450]

The web site says max temp of 170f and melts at 329f, no way im putting that in a bk.

 

[The Pol]

The web site says max temp of 170f and melts at 329f, no way im putting that in a bk.

Then dont... Ive had it in mine, but my beer is swill anyhow.

I am using it because I need to have an arm that will both pull from the side for brewing and from the center for CIP. A rigid pickup, will not work.

My kettle only reaches 210F, so far... no issue.

If my beer gets worse than it already is, then I will come up with something else.

 

[beerocd]

I am using it because I need to have an arm that will both pull from the side for brewing and from the center for CIP. A rigid pickup, will not work..

Why not be the first person on HBT with dual valves? One for draining wort, one for draining cleaner. You'll be the first. You'll be even more famous! :fro:

And you won't have to worry about growing a tail or a third eye or killing your swimmers.

-OCD