Recirculating/sparging all wort?

[Svartfarfar]

Hi

I am new to brewing and just completed my second all grain brew.

I am concerned that I am not doing it right, so let me describe my process to see if you can find something odd with my way of clearing the husk from the wort.

I brew using the BIAB method. After mashing i simply lift the bag up to strain the wort, then when the dripping stops i put the bag (with the grain) in a fine mesh strainer over a plastic tun. Then I pour back all the wort that was extracted over the grain bag, allowing it to "sparge" the full amount of wort and to clarify it and strain out any husk. I've read that this is not the normal way of sparging, and that i should use clear heated water instead of recirculating the wort.

Will this mess up my brew in any way do you think?

Cheers

 

[slym2none]

Well, it's not the most efficient because you are inevitably leaving behind some of the sugars you've already knocked loose. That's why you should sparge with water & not wort.

If you are doing full-volume BIAB mashing, you shouldn't need to sparge at all, just let the bag drain well, maybe give it a squeeze or three.

 

[Reisende]

I don't think it will mess anything up, but sparging with your first running's isn't helping you any. The idea of sparging is to rinse the grains of the sugars they are still holding on to. Might I suggest you head over to the BIAB forum, there are undoubtedly many more experts that can help you there.

Prost!

 

[Reisende]

And welcome to the forum, BTW!

 

[Svartfarfar]

And welcome to the forum, BTW!

Thanks guys. My main goal was actually not to improve efficiency and to extract more sugars, but to avoid having husks and residue in the wort that I'm about to boil.

Maybe the problem is with my bag and that it has too big holes in the bottom that allows husks to come out into the wort. My goal is to have an as clear beer as possible

 

[Svartfarfar]

Well, it's not the most efficient because you are inevitably leaving behind some of the sugars you've already knocked loose. That's why you should sparge with water & not wort.

If you are doing full-volume BIAB mashing, you shouldn't need to sparge at all, just let the bag drain well, maybe give it a squeeze or three.

Right, I AM doing full volume (1 gallon) BIAB mashing. So the problem is probably my bag that has too big holes. I should probably get a finer mesh for the bag (this one was however recommended to me at the brewery store).

Im guessing that also when mixing the grain during mashing, i am pushing some of the smaller bits through the mesh.

 

[slym2none]

If you have a home-improvement center or even a hardware store nearby, look for 5-gallon paint-strainer bags. Your HB store doesn't seem to have the highest quality bags, I'd say...

 

[slym2none]

And oh yeah - welcome to the boards!

 

[Svartfarfar]

Hi

I use something like this which seem to have a finer mesh on the sides but bigger on the bottom.

 

[Svartfarfar]

And oh yeah - welcome to the boards!

Thanks man

 

[RM-MN]

Hi

I am new to brewing and just completed my second all grain brew.

I am concerned that I am not doing it right, so let me describe my process to see if you can find something odd with my way of clearing the husk from the wort.

I brew using the BIAB method. After mashing i simply lift the bag up to strain the wort, then when the dripping stops i put the bag (with the grain) in a fine mesh strainer over a plastic tun. Then I pour back all the wort that was extracted over the grain bag, allowing it to "sparge" the full amount of wort and to clarify it and strain out any husk. I've read that this is not the normal way of sparging, and that i should use clear heated water instead of recirculating the wort.

Will this mess up my brew in any way do you think?

Cheers

You aren't going to hurt a thing doing it your way. You're not going to help it much either. Clear beer doesn't require clear wort. Unless you have a hole ripped in the bag, ignore the bits of husk and grain particles. When the beer is done fermenting the particles will settle out just fine. I think the term for what you are doing would be something like a full volume vorlauf, not a sparge. Vorlauf is returning some of the first runnings from the conventional mash tun to the tun because with that system you are depending on the grain husks to form the filter and it would be common for a bunch of them to come out with the wort as you first open the drain before there was a filtering bed of them.

Sparging is adding clear water with the intent of extracting more sugars from the grains. When you drain the wort from the bag of grains the wort will be at equilibrium with the sugars in the grains. When you add just water, a new equilibrium point will be established which will be lower as you move the sugars from the grain to the water. If you were to drain that wort and do another sparge with fresh water, you would establish a new equilibrium again and would have collected more of the sugars but this time there will be much less sugars in the grain and you will collect much less sugar. If your grains are milled fine and you squeeze the wort out of the bag of grains, a sparge step might gain you about 5% efficiency. A second sparge might only gain you half a percent and the next sparge would gain you nearly nothing.

 

[Svartfarfar]

You aren't going to hurt a thing doing it your way. You're not going to help it much either. Clear beer doesn't require clear wort. Unless you have a hole ripped in the bag, ignore the bits of husk and grain particles. When the beer is done fermenting the particles will settle out just fine. I think the term for what you are doing would be something like a full volume vorlauf, not a sparge. Vorlauf is returning some of the first runnings from the conventional mash tun to the tun because with that system you are depending on the grain husks to form the filter and it would be common for a bunch of them to come out with the wort as you first open the drain before there was a filtering bed of them.

Sparging is adding clear water with the intent of extracting more sugars from the grains. When you drain the wort from the bag of grains the wort will be at equilibrium with the sugars in the grains. When you add just water, a new equilibrium point will be established which will be lower as you move the sugars from the grain to the water. If you were to drain that wort and do another sparge with fresh water, you would establish a new equilibrium again and would have collected more of the sugars but this time there will be much less sugars in the grain and you will collect much less sugar. If your grains are milled fine and you squeeze the wort out of the bag of grains, a sparge step might gain you about 5% efficiency. A second sparge might only gain you half a percent and the next sparge would gain you nearly nothing.

Awesome man, now i realize what I did I was worrying that the husk and residue would generate a cloudy beer or add some off-flavors when I boil it.

I will run the boiled wort through a mesh anyway before putting it into the fermenter right, in order to get all the hop gunk out?

 

[jrcrilly]

The bag pictured above looks like a sparge bag. That wouldn't normally be used for BIAB.

 

[Svartfarfar]

The bag pictured above looks like a sparge bag. That wouldn't normally be used for BIAB.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that too. Are you suggesting a very fine mesh bag for the purpose of boiling?

 

[jrcrilly]

Yes. The paint strainer bag mentioned above seems popular (and inexpensive, and easy to obtain). The homebrew supply stores around here offer nylon bags sold for BIAB use, as do the mail order houses. Bags made specifically for the purpose are available from at least one maker; someone here will surely provide the source (sorry; I can't think of it right now). Costlier, but probably better.

 

[Svartfarfar]

Yes. The paint strainer bag mentioned above seems popular (and inexpensive, and easy to obtain). The homebrew supply stores around here offer nylon bags sold for BIAB use, as do the mail order houses. Bags made specifically for the purpose are available from at least one maker; someone here will surely provide the source (sorry; I can't think of it right now). Costlier, but probably better.

Thanks, I'm in Sweden and the number of brewing shops are very limited. I will look for it online though.

 

[doug293cz]

Yeah, I'm starting to think that too. Are you suggesting a very fine mesh bag for the purpose of boiling?

You want a very fine mesh bag for mashing. You don't use a bag for boiling. The best bags are made from polyester voile. And as said before, clear wort (either into the boil or into the fermenter) is not needed for clear beer. A lot of people like to work with clear wort because they don't know it isn't necessary, or they just like the aesthetics better. There's nothing wrong with clear wort, but it just isn't necessary. I make beers you can read a newspaper thru, and dump most of my kettle trub (including hop particles) into the fermenter. Brulosopher did an experiment where the wort with more trub in it actually made slightly clearer beer.

Brew on

 

[Svartfarfar]

You want a very fine mesh bag for mashing. You don't use a bag for boiling. The best bags are made from polyester voile. And as said before, clear wort (either into the boil or into the fermenter) is not needed for clear beer. A lot of people like to work with clear wort because they don't know it isn't necessary, or they just like the aesthetics better. There's nothing wrong with clear wort, but it just isn't necessary. I make beers you can read a newspaper thru, and dump most of my kettle trub (including hop particles) into the fermenter. Brulosopher did an experiment where the wort with more trub in it actually made slightly clearer beer.

Brew on

Thanks! This is really useful info!

By the way, a follow-up question.

Would it be any difference to mash the grain straight in the pot (without a bag) then straining it through a mesh filter before boiling compared to mashing in a bag (obviously without straining if the bag is fine meshed)? I will definetly try not to worry too much about the trub, just want to find the most efficent way. Will the first method generate some undesirable aerating of the wort at this point?

I guess one of the benefits of mashing in a bag is that it's easy enough to discard of the mash grain and go straight to boiling.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks! This is really useful info!

By the way, a follow-up question.

Would it be any difference to mash the grain straight in the pot (without a bag) then straining it through a mesh filter before boiling compared to mashing in a bag (obviously without straining if the bag is fine meshed)? I will definetly try not to worry too much about the trub, just want to find the most efficent way. Will the first method generate some undesirable aerating of the wort at this point?

I guess one of the benefits of mashing in a bag is that it's easy enough to discard of the mash grain and go straight to boiling.

I don't think the results would differ much. It's just a lot easier to mash in the bag, and then lauter simply by lifting the bag out of the pot. Think about the mechanics of how you would get the unconstrained mash into the mesh filter. Pouring heavy, hot, sticky liquid slush can lead to problems.

No one has ever been able to demonstrate (and people have tried) that there are any detrimental effects caused by exposing hot wort to oxygen.

Brew on

 

[Svartfarfar]

I don't think the results would differ much. It's just a lot easier to mash in the bag, and then lauter simply by lifting the bag out of the pot. Think about the mechanics of how you would get the unconstrained mash into the mesh filter. Pouring heavy, hot, sticky liquid slush can lead to problems.

No one has ever been able to demonstrate (and people have tried) that there are any detrimental effects caused by exposing hot wort to oxygen.

Brew on

The only reason why i am considering it is because i currently only brew 1 gal batches, which would be manageble to pitch. But i'd better get that finer mesh bag instead. Seems simpler